Subject: Processors | April 10, 2017 - 05:50 PM | Jeremy Hellstrom
Tagged: amd, ryzen 5, ryzen 5 1600, ryzen 5 1400
Perhaps it is best not to ask how this came about, but you can order the Ryzen 5 1600 and 1400 from eBay. The seller has an impressive reputation and as Kyle over at [H]ard|OCP has already ordered and received some, this should be a fairly safe opportunity to take advantage of. The full review has not yet been published but that did not stop them from putting together a quick overclocking video. If you have 20 minutes to spare and an interest in AMD's new processors you should take a look.
"Much to our surprise, AMD Ryzen 5 CPUs started showing up online for sale last week in North America, so we did what any PC hardware review site would do. We went out and bought four of those and started working on seeing just how much overclocking headroom each of these new CPUs have."
Here are some more Processor articles from around the web:
- The AMD Ryzen 5 1600X Processor First Look @ TechARP
- The AMD Ryzen 5 1500X CPU First Look @ TechARP
- AMD RYZEN 7 Trifecta @ Bjorn3d
- Core i7-7700K @ Hardware Secrets
Subject: Processors | April 6, 2017 - 06:03 PM | Allyn Malventano
Tagged: ryzen, Power Plan, Power Management, Balanced, amd
AMD Releases Ryzen Balanced Power Plan - Test Results Inside
AMD has published Community Update #3 to their blog. This update details a new Power Plan that should yield improved gaming performance for those who were previously using the Windows default Balanced Power Profile. There has been lots of speculation on reasons for performance differences when gaming in various power modes and even on different Operating Systems. With this new Ryzen Balanced profile also came some info that should help us clear up some of the other misconceptions out there.
After we determined that the Windows 10 Scheduler was not at fault for the Ryzen performance issues we were seeing in some applications, we received some testing feedback from those who had noted performance differences between Windows 7 and Windows 10. While many believed that to be confirmation of scheduler differences between both Operating Systems, the actual cause was down to how Windows 7 and Windows 10 park their cores, as demonstrated by the points AMD sent us earlier today:
- Windows 7 only parks SMT cores, keeping all physical cores awake.
- Windows 10 keeps the first core awake (logical core 0 + 1 on a HT system) and parks the remainder when possible.
- Windows 10 disables core parking by default on Intel CPUs (Speed Shift support).
Since Windows power management (not the scheduler) is not yet Ryzen aware, its default settings result in overly aggressive core parking when driving a Ryzen CPU. Until a lower level change can take place, AMD has released a custom Ryzen Balanced Power Plan that tweaks some of the P-state transition values and a few other settings to help realize the performance gains previously seen by folks shifting to the High Performance mode while keeping idle power consumption much closer to that of the Balanced plan. Here are AMD’s claimed performance gains (vs. Balanced) with their new Ryzen Balanced Power Plan:
AMD provided claimed gains for Ryzen Balanced profile vs. default Windows Balanced profile.
Realize these gains are all going to be nearly identical to any prior comparison showing Balanced vs. High Performance profile deltas, but this profile retains most of the idle power savings accomplished by the Balanced plan. We’ve been doing some testing with the tool and can partially confirm the above results, while adding in some more of our own that were not included in AMD’s data:
The blue highlighted bars denote the overlapping titles tested. A few other titles we tested showed lesser (or no) gains, but that’s not necessarily the fault of this new profile as those same titles saw similar results with a switch to High Performance mode when tested previously.
I did a bit of digging into exactly which power profile parameters are being tweaked and how. Laymen poking around in Windows Power Management will only find this single difference:
However, deconstructing the actual profile data reveals more changes that do not appear in the Windows GUI. Here are the low-level changes we discovered, including the ‘Minimum processor state’ previously noted above:
Note: Units differ varying by parameter in this chart - compare within each set of 3 bars.
As you can see, changes were made to help minimize the parking of Ryzen cores, and to also speed up their waking when required. It may not be a perfect solution as it is another step that the user must perform to get good ‘out of the box’ Ryzen performance, but it does help alleviate the dilemma of running your desktop machine at full tilt 24/7 or having to switch power modes on either end of your gaming sessions. This is a solid stop-gap until native Ryzen support makes its way into Windows, so all of you Ryzen users out there, run over to the AMD Blog and grab/install the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan!
Tweaks for days
It seems like it’s been months since AMD launched Ryzen, its first new processor architecture in about a decade, when in fact we are only four weeks removed. One of the few concerns about the Ryzen processors centered on its performance in some gaming performance results, particularly in common resolutions like 1080p. While I was far from the only person to notice these concerns, our gaming tests clearly showed a gap between the Ryzen 7 1800X and the Intel Core i7-7700K and 6900K processors in Civilization 6, Hitman and Rise of the Tomb Raider.
A graph from our Ryzen launch coverage...
We had been working with AMD for a couple of weeks on the Ryzen launch and fed back our results with questions in the week before launch. On March 2nd, AMD’s CVP of Marketing John Taylor gave us a prepared statement that acknowledged the issue but promised changes come in form for game engine updates. These software updates would need to be implemented by the game developers themselves in order to take advantage of the unique and more complex core designs of the Zen architecture. We had quotes from the developers of Ashes of the Singularity as well as the Total War series to back it up.
And while statements promising change are nice, it really takes some proof to get the often skeptical tech media and tech enthusiasts to believe that change can actually happen. Today AMD is showing its first result.
The result of 400 developer hours of work, the Nitrous Engine powering Ashes of the Singularity received an update today to version 26118 that integrates updates to threading to better balance the performance across Ryzen 7’s 8 cores and 16 threads. I was able to do some early testing on the new revision, as well as with the previous retail shipping version (25624) to see what kind of improvements the patch brings with it.
Stardock / Oxide CEO Brad Wardell had this to say in a press release:
“I’ve always been vocal about taking advantage of every ounce of performance the PC has to offer. That’s why I’m a strong proponent of DirectX 12 and Vulkan® because of the way these APIs allow us to access multiple CPU cores, and that’s why the AMD Ryzen processor has so much potential,” said Stardock and Oxide CEO Brad Wardell. “As good as AMD Ryzen is right now – and it’s remarkably fast – we’ve already seen that we can tweak games like Ashes of the Singularity to take even more advantage of its impressive core count and processing power. AMD Ryzen brings resources to the table that will change what people will come to expect from a PC gaming experience.”
Our testing setup is in line with our previous CPU performance stories.
|Test System Setup|
|CPU||AMD Ryzen 7 1800X
Intel Core i7-6900K
|Motherboard||ASUS Crosshair VI Hero (Ryzen)
ASUS X99-Deluxe II (Broadwell-E)
|Storage||Corsair Force GS 240 SSD|
|Graphics Card||NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 8GB|
|Graphics Drivers||NVIDIA 378.49|
|Power Supply||Corsair HX1000|
|Operating System||Windows 10 Pro x64|
I was using the latest BIOS for our ASUS Crosshair VI Hero motherboard (1002) and upgraded to some Geil RGB (!!) memory capable of running at 3200 MHz on this board with a single BIOS setting adjustment. All of my tests were done at 1080p in order to return to the pain point that AMD was dealing with on launch day.
Let’s see the results.
These are substantial performance improvements with the new engine code! At both 2400 MHz and 3200 MHz memory speeds, and at both High and Extreme presets in the game (all running in DX12 for what that’s worth), the gaming performance on the GPU-centric is improved. At the High preset (which is the setting that AMD used in its performance data for the press release), we see a 31% jump in performance when running at the higher memory speed and a 22% improvement with the lower speed memory. Even when running at the more GPU-bottlenecked state of the Extreme preset, that performance improvement for the Ryzen processors with the latest Ashes patch is 17-20%!
It’s also important to note that Intel performance is unaffected – either for the better or worse. Whatever work Oxide did to improve the engine for AMD’s Ryzen processors had NO impact on the Core processors, which is interesting to say the least. The cynic in me would believe there is little chance that any agnostic changes to code would raise Intel’s multi-core performance at least a little bit.
So what exactly is happening to the engine with v26118? I haven’t had a chance to have an in-depth conversation with anyone at AMD or Oxide yet on the subject, but at a high level, I was told that this is what happens when instructions and sequences are analyzed for an architecture specifically. “For basically 5 years”, I was told, Oxide and other developers have dedicated their time to “instruction traces and analysis to maximize Intel performance” which helps to eliminate poor instruction setup. After spending some time with Ryzen and the necessary debug tools (and some AMD engineers), they were able to improve performance on Ryzen without adversely affecting Intel parts.
Core to core latency testing on Ryzen 7 1800X
I am hoping to get more specific detail in the coming days, but it would seem very likely that Oxide was able to properly handle the more complex core to core communication systems on Ryzen and its CCX implementation. We demonstrated early this month how thread to thread communication across core complexes causes substantially latency penalties, and that a developer that intelligently manages threads that have dependencies on the core complex can improve overall performance. I would expect this is at least part of the solution Oxide was able to integrate (and would also explain why Intel parts are unaffected).
- Ryzen 7 1800X - $499 - Amazon.com
- Ryzen 7 1700X - $399 - Amazon.com
- Ryzen 7 1700 - $329 - Amazon.com
What is important now is that AMD takes this momentum with Ashes of the Singularity and actually does something with it. Many of you will recognize Ashes as the flagship title for Mantle when AMD made that move to change the programming habits and models for developers, and though Mantle would eventually become Vulkan and drive DX12 development, it did not foretell an overall shift as it hoped to. Can AMD and its developer relations team continue to make the case that spending time and money (which is what 400 developer hours equates to) to make specific performance enhancements for Ryzen processors is in the best interest of everyone? We’ll soon find out.
Subject: Processors | March 28, 2017 - 11:48 AM | Morry Teitelman
Tagged: FinalWire, aida64, ryzen, amd, Intel
Courtesy of FinalWire
Today, FinalWire Ltd. announced the release of version 5.90 of their diagnostic and benchmarking tool, AIDA64. This new version updates their Extreme Edition, Engineer Edition, and Business Edition of the software, available here.
The latest version of AIDA64 has been optimized to work with AMD's Ryzen "Summit Ridge" and Intel's "Apollo Lake" processors, as well as updated to work with Microsoft's Windows 10 Creators Update release. The benchmarks and performance tests housed within AIDA64 have been updated for the Ryzen processor to utilize the VX2, FMA3, AES-NI and SHA instruction sets.
New features include:
- AVX2 and FMA accelerated 64-bit benchmarks for AMD Ryzen Summit Ridge processors
- Microsoft Windows 10 Creators Update support
- Optimized 64-bit benchmarks for Intel Apollo Lake SoC
- Improved support for Intel Cannonlake, Coffee Lake, Denverton, Kaby Lake-X, Skylake-X CPUs
- Preliminary support for AMD Zen server processors
- Preliminary support for Intel Gemini Lake SoC and Knights Mill HPC CPU
- NZXT Kraken X52 sensor support
- Socket AM4 motherboards support
- Improved support for Intel B250, H270, Q270 and Z270 chipset based motherboards
- EastRising ER-OLEDM032 (SSD1322) OLED support
- SMBIOS 3.1.1 support
- Crucial M600, Crucial MX300, Intel Pro 5400s, SanDisk Plus, WD Blue SSD support
- Improved support for Samsung NVMe SSDs
- Advanced support for HighPoint RocketRAID 27xx RAID controllers
- GPU details for nVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti, Quadro GP100, Tesla P6
Software updates new to this release (since AIDA64 v5.00):
- AVX and FMA accelerated FP32 and FP64 ray tracing benchmarks
- Vulkan graphics accelerator diagnostics
- RemoteSensor smartphone and tablet LCD integration
- Logitech Arx Control smartphone and tablet LCD integration
- Microsoft Windows 10 TH2 (November Update) support
- Proper DPI scaling to better support high-resolution LCD and OLED displays
- AVX and FMA accelerated 64-bit benchmarks for AMD A-Series Bristol Ridge and Carrizo APUs
- AVX2 and FMA accelerated 64-bit benchmarks for Intel Broadwell, Kaby Lake and Skylake CPUs
- AVX and SSE accelerated 64-bit benchmarks for AMD Nolan APU
- Optimized 64-bit benchmarks for Intel Braswell and Cherry Trail processors
- Advanced SMART disk health monitoring
- Hot Keys to switch LCD pages, start or stop logging, show or hide SensorPanel
- Corsair K65, K70, K95, Corsair Strafe, Logitech G13, G19, G19s, G910, Razer Chroma RGB LED keyboard support
- Corsair, Logitech, Razer RGB LED mouse support
- Corsair and Razer RGB LED mousepad support
- AlphaCool Heatmaster II, Aquaduct, Aquaero, AquaStream XT, AquaStream Ultimate, Farbwerk, MPS, NZXT GRID+ V2, PowerAdjust 2, PowerAdjust 3 sensor devices support
- Improved Corsair Link sensor support
- NZXT Kraken water cooling sensor support
- Corsair AXi, Corsair HXi, Corsair RMi, Enermax Digifanless, Thermaltake DPS-G power supply unit sensor support
- Support for Gravitech, LCD Smartie Hardware, Leo Bodnar, Modding-FAQ, Noteu, Odospace, Saitek Pro Flight Instrument Panel, Saitek X52 Pro, UCSD LCD devices
- Portrait mode support for AlphaCool and Samsung SPF LCDs
- System certificates information
- Advanced support for Adaptec and Marvell RAID controllers
AIDA64 is developed by FinalWire Ltd., headquartered in Budapest, Hungary. The company’s founding members are veteran software developers who have worked together on programming system utilities for more than two decades. Currently, they have ten products in their portfolio, all based on the award-winning AIDA technology: AIDA64 Extreme, AIDA64 Engineer, AIDA64 Network Audit, AIDA64 Business and AIDA64 for Android,, iOS, Sailfish OS, Tizen, Ubuntu Touch and Windows Phone. For more information, visit www.aida64.com.
A new start
Qualcomm is finally ready to show the world how the Snapdragon 835 Mobile Platform performs. After months of teases and previews, including a the reveal that it was the first processor built on Samsung’s 10nm process technology and a mostly in-depth look at the architectural changes to the CPU and GPU portions of the SoC, the company let a handful of media get some hands-on time with development reference platform and run some numbers.
To frame the discussion as best I can, I am going to include some sections from my technology overview. This should give some idea of what to expect from Snapdragon 835 and what areas Qualcomm sees providing the widest variation from previous SD 820/821 product.
Qualcomm frames the story around the Snapdragon 835 processor with what they call the “five pillars” – five different aspects of mobile processor design that they have addressed with updates and technologies. Qualcomm lists them as battery life (efficiency), immersion (performance), capture, connectivity, and security.
Starting where they start, on battery life and efficiency, the SD 835 has a unique focus that might surprise many. Rather than talking up the improvements in performance of the new processor cores, or the power of the new Adreno GPU, Qualcomm is firmly planted on looking at Snapdragon through the lens of battery life. Snapdragon 835 uses half of the power of Snapdragon 801.
Since we already knew that the Snapdragon 835 was going to be built on the 10nm process from Samsung, the first such high performance part to do so, I was surprised to learn that Qualcomm doesn’t attribute much of the power efficiency improvements to the move from 14nm to 10nm. It makes sense – most in the industry see this transition as modest in comparison to what we’ll see at 7nm. Unlike the move from 28nm to 14/16nm for discrete GPUs, where the process technology was a huge reason for the dramatic power drop we saw, the Snapdragon 835 changes come from a combination of advancements in the power management system and offloading of work from the primary CPU cores to other processors like the GPU and DSP. The more a workload takes advantage of heterogeneous computing systems, the more it benefits from Qualcomm technology as opposed to process technology.
Subject: Processors | March 17, 2017 - 03:48 PM | Jeremy Hellstrom
Tagged: amd, Intel, ryzen, sanity check
Ars Technica asks the question that many reasonable people are also pondering, "Intel still beats Ryzen at games, but how much does it matter?". We here at PCPer have seen the same sorts of responses which Ars has, there is a group of people who had the expectation that Ryzen would miraculously beat any and all Intel chips at every possible task. More experienced heads were hoping for about what we received, a chip which can challenge Broadwell, offering performance which improved greatly on their previous architecture. The launch has revealed some growing pains with AMD's new baby but not anything which makes Ryzen bad.
Indeed, with more DX12 or Vulkan games arriving we should see AMD's performance improve, especially if programmers start to take more effective advantage of high core counts. Head over to read the article, unless you feel that is not a requirement to comment on this topic.
"In spite of this, reading the various reviews around the Web—and comment threads, tweets, and reddit posts—one gets the feeling that many were hoping or expecting Ryzen to somehow beat Intel across the board, and there's a prevailing narrative that Ryzen is in some sense a bad gaming chip. But this argument is often paired with the claim that some kind of non-specific "optimization" is going to salvage the processor's performance, that AMD fans just need to keep the faith for a few months, and that soon Ryzen's full power will be revealed."
Here are some more Processor articles from around the web:
- AMD Ryzen 7 1800X, 1700X, and 1700 Processor Review @ Neoseeker
- AMD's Ryzen 5 Processors; A Preview @ Hardware Canucks
- AMD Ryzen 7 1800X 3.6 GHz @ techPowerUp
- AMD Ryzen 7 1700 @ Kitguru
Here Comes the Midrange!
Today AMD is announcing the upcoming Ryzen 5 CPUs. A little bit was known about them from several weeks ago when AMD talked about their upcoming 6 core processors, but official specifications were lacking. Today we get to see what Ryzen 5 is mostly about.
There are four initial SKUs that AMD is talking about this evening. These encompass quad core and six core products. There are two “enthusiast” level SKUs with the X connotation while the other two are aimed at a less edgy crowd.
The two six core CPUs are the 1600 and 1600X. The X version features the higher extended frequency range when combined with performance cooling. That unit is clocked at a base 3.6 GHz and achieves a boost of 4 GHz. This compares well to the top end R7 1800X, but it is short 2 cores and four threads. The price of the R5 1600X is a very reasonable $249. The 1600 does not feature the extended range, but it does come in at a 3.2 GHz base and 3.6 GHz boost. The R5 1600 has a MSRP of $219.
When we get to the four core, eight thread units we see much the same stratification. The top end 1500X comes in at $189 and features a base clock of 3.5 GHz and a boost of 3.7 GHz. What is interesting about this model is that the XFR is raised by 100 MHz vs. other XFR CPUs. So instead of an extra 100 MHz boost when high end cooling is present we can expect to see 200 MHz. In theory this could run at 3.9 GHz in the extended state. The lowest priced R5 is the 1400 which comes in at a very modest $169. This features a 3.2 GHz base clock and a 3.4 GHz boost.
The 1400, 1500, and 1600 CPUs come with Wraith cooling solutions. The 1600X comes bare as it is assumed that users want to use something a bit more robust. The R5 1400 comes with the lower end Wraith Stealth cooler while the R5 1500X and R5 1600 come with the bigger Wraith Spire. The bottom 3 SKUs are all rated at 65 watts TDP. The 1600X comes in at the higher 95 watt rating. Each of the CPUs are unlocked for overclocking.
These chips will provide a more fleshed out pricing structure for the Ryzen processors and provide users and enthusiasts with lower cost options for those wanting to invest in AMD again. These chips all run on the new AM4 platform which are pretty strong in terms of features and I/O performance.
AMD is not shipping these parts today, but rather announcing them. Review samples are not in hand yet and AMD expects world-wide availability by April 11. This is likely a very necessary step for AMD as current AM4 motherboard availability is not at the level we were expecting to see. We also are seeing some pretty quick firmware updates from motherboard partners to address issues with these first AM4 boards. By April 11 I would expect to see most of the issues solved and a healthy supply of motherboards on the shelves to handle the influx of consumers waiting to buy these more midrange priced CPUs from AMD.
What they did not cover or answer would be how the four core products would be presented. Would each be a single CCX and only 8 MB of L3 cace, or would AMD disable two cores in each CCX and present 16 MB of L3? We currently do not have the answer to this. Considering the latency between accessing different CCX units we can surely hope they only keep one CCX active.
Ryzen has certainly been a success for AMD and I have no doubt that their quarter will be pretty healthy with the estimated sales of around 1 million Ryzen CPUs since launch. Announcing these new chips will give the mainstream and budget enthusiasts something to look forward to and plan their purchases around. AMD is not announcing the Ryzen 3 products at this time.
Update: AMD got back to me this morning about a question I asked them about the makeup of cores, CCX units, and L3 cache. Here is their response.
1600X: 3+3 with 16MB L3 cache. 1600: 3+3 with 16MB L3 cache. 1500X: 2+2 with 16MB L3 cache. 1400: 2+2 with 8MB L3 cache. As with Ryzen 7, each core still has 512KB local L2 cache.
Subject: Processors | March 15, 2017 - 05:51 PM | Josh Walrath
Tagged: ryzen, Infinity Fabric, hwbot, FMA3, Control Fabric, bug, amd, AM4
Last week a thread was started at the HWBOT forum and discussed a certain workload that resulted in a hard lock every time it was run. This was tested with a variety of motherboards and Ryzen processors from the 1700 to the 1800X. In no circumstance at default power and clock settings did the processor not lock from the samples that they have worked on, as well as products that contributors have been able to test themselves.
This is quite reminiscent of the Coppermine based Pentium III 1133 MHz processor from Intel which failed in one specific workload (compiling). Intel had shipped a limited number of these CPUs at that time, and it was Kyle from HardOCP and Tom from Tom’s Hardware that were the first to show this behavior in a repeatable environment. Intel stopped shipping these models and had to wait til the Tualatin version of the Pentium III to be released to achieve that speed (and above) and be stable in all workloads.
The interesting thing about this FMA3 finding is that it is seen to not be present in some overclocked Ryzen chips. To me this indicates that it could be a power delivery issue with the chip. A particular workload that heavily leans upon the FPU could require more power than the chip’s Control Fabric can deliver, therefore causing a hard lock. Several tested overclocked chips with much more power being pushed to them seems as though enough power is being applied to the specific area of the chip to allow the operation to be completed successfully.
This particular fact implies to me that AMD does not necessarily have a bug such as what Intel had with the infamous F-Div issue with the original Pentium, or AMD’s issue with the B2 stepping of Phenom. AMD has a very complex voltage control system that is controlled by the Control Fabric portion of the Infinity Fabric. With a potential firmware or microcode update this could be a fixable problem. If this is the case, then AMD would simply increase power being supplied to the FPU/SIMD/SSE portion of the Ryzen cores. This may come at a cost through lower burst speeds to keep TDP within their stated envelope.
A source at AMD has confirmed this issue and that a fix will be provided via motherboard firmware update. More than likely this comes in the form of an updated AGESA protocol.
Subject: Processors | March 14, 2017 - 03:17 PM | Jeremy Hellstrom
Tagged: nvidia, JetsonTX1, Denver, Cortex A57, pascal, SoC
Amongst the furor of the Ryzen launch the NVIDIA's new Jetson TX2 SoC was quietly sent out to reviewers and today the NDA expired so we can see how it performs. There are more Ryzen reviews below the fold, including Phoronix's Linux testing if you want to skip ahead. In addition to the specifications in the quote, you will find 8GB of 128-bit LPDDR4 offering memory bandwidth of 58.4 GB/s and 32GBs of eMMC for local storage. This Jetson is running JetPack 3.0 L4T based off of the Linux 4.4.15 kernel. Phoronix tested out its performance, see for yourself.
"Last week we got to tell you all about the new NVIDIA Jetson TX2 with its custom-designed 64-bit Denver 2 CPUs, four Cortex-A57 cores, and Pascal graphics with 256 CUDA cores. Today the Jetson TX2 is shipping and the embargo has expired for sharing performance metrics on the JTX2."
Here are some more Processor articles from around the web:
- Hands-On Nvidia Jetson TX2: Fast Processing for Embedded Devices @ Hack a Day
- AMD Ryzen 7 1700X Review; Testing SMT @ Hardware Canucks
- AMD Ryzen 7 1700 Linux Benchmarks: Great Multi-Core Performance For $329 @ Phoronix
Subject: Processors | March 13, 2017 - 08:48 PM | Sebastian Peak
Tagged: Windows 7, windows 10, thread scheduling, SMT, ryzen, Robert Hallock, processor, cpu, amd
AMD's Robert Hallock (previously the Head of Global Technical Marketing for AMD and now working full time on the CPU side of things) has posted a comprehensive Ryzen update, covering AMD's official stance on Windows 10 thread scheduling, the performance implications of SMT, Windows power management settings, and more. The post in its entirety is reproduced below, and also available from AMD by following this link.
It’s been about two weeks since we launched the new AMD Ryzen™ processor, and I’m just thrilled to see all the excitement and chatter surrounding our new chip. Seems like not a day goes by when I’m not being tweeted by someone doing a new build, often for the first time in many years. Reports from media and users have also been good:
- “This CPU gives you something that we needed for a long time, which is a CPU that gives you a well-rounded experience.” –JayzTwoCents
- Competitive performance at 1080p, with Tech Spot saying the “affordable Ryzen 7 1700” is an “awesome option” and a “safer bet long term.”
- ExtremeTech showed strong performance for high-end GPUs like the GeForce GTX 1080 Ti, especially for gamers that understand how much value AMD Ryzen™ brings to the table
- Many users are noting that the 8-core design of AMD Ryzen™ 7 processors enables “noticeably SMOOTHER” performance compared to their old platforms.
While these findings have been great to read, we are just getting started! The AMD Ryzen™ processor and AM4 Platform both have room to grow, and we wanted to take a few minutes to address some of the questions and comments being discussed across the web.
We have investigated reports alleging incorrect thread scheduling on the AMD Ryzen™ processor. Based on our findings, AMD believes that the Windows® 10 thread scheduler is operating properly for “Zen,” and we do not presently believe there is an issue with the scheduler adversely utilizing the logical and physical configurations of the architecture.
As an extension of this investigation, we have also reviewed topology logs generated by the Sysinternals Coreinfo utility. We have determined that an outdated version of the application was responsible for originating the incorrect topology data that has been widely reported in the media. Coreinfo v3.31 (or later) will produce the correct results.
Finally, we have reviewed the limited available evidence concerning performance deltas between Windows® 7 and Windows® 10 on the AMD Ryzen™ CPU. We do not believe there is an issue with scheduling differences between the two versions of Windows. Any differences in performance can be more likely attributed to software architecture differences between these OSes.
Going forward, our analysis highlights that there are many applications that already make good use of the cores and threads in Ryzen, and there are other applications that can better utilize the topology and capabilities of our new CPU with some targeted optimizations. These opportunities are already being actively worked via the AMD Ryzen™ dev kit program that has sampled 300+ systems worldwide.
Above all, we would like to thank the community for their efforts to understand the Ryzen processor and reporting their findings. The software/hardware relationship is a complex one, with additional layers of nuance when preexisting software is exposed to an all-new architecture. We are already finding many small changes that can improve the Ryzen performance in certain applications, and we are optimistic that these will result in beneficial optimizations for current and future applications.
The primary temperature reporting sensor of the AMD Ryzen™ processor is a sensor called “T Control,” or tCTL for short. The tCTL sensor is derived from the junction (Tj) temperature—the interface point between the die and heatspreader—but it may be offset on certain CPU models so that all models on the AM4 Platform have the same maximum tCTL value. This approach ensures that all AMD Ryzen™ processors have a consistent fan policy.
Specifically, the AMD Ryzen™ 7 1700X and 1800X carry a +20°C offset between the tCTL° (reported) temperature and the actual Tj° temperature. In the short term, users of the AMD Ryzen™ 1700X and 1800X can simply subtract 20°C to determine the true junction temperature of their processor. No arithmetic is required for the Ryzen 7 1700. Long term, we expect temperature monitoring software to better understand our tCTL offsets to report the junction temperature automatically.
The table below serves as an example of how the tCTL sensor can be interpreted in a hypothetical scenario where a Ryzen processor is operating at 38°C.
Users may have heard that AMD recommends the High Performance power plan within Windows® 10 for the best performance on Ryzen, and indeed we do. We recommend this plan for two key reasons:
- Core Parking OFF: Idle CPU cores are instantaneously available for thread scheduling. In contrast, the Balanced plan aggressively places idle CPU cores into low power states. This can cause additional latency when un-parking cores to accommodate varying loads.
- Fast frequency change: The AMD Ryzen™ processor can alter its voltage and frequency states in the 1ms intervals natively supported by the “Zen” architecture. In contrast, the Balanced plan may take longer for voltage and frequency (V/f) changes due to software participation in power state changes.
In the near term, we recommend that games and other high-performance applications are complemented by the High Performance plan. By the first week of April, AMD intends to provide an update for AMD Ryzen™ processors that optimizes the power policy parameters of the Balanced plan to favor performance more consistent with the typical usage models of a desktop PC.
Simultaneous Multi-threading (SMT)
Finally, we have investigated reports of instances where SMT is producing reduced performance in a handful of games. Based on our characterization of game workloads, it is our expectation that gaming applications should generally see a neutral/positive benefit from SMT. We see this neutral/positive behavior in a wide range of titles, including: Arma® 3, Battlefield™ 1, Mafia™ III, Watch Dogs™ 2, Sid Meier’s Civilization® VI, For Honor™, Hitman™, Mirror’s Edge™ Catalyst and The Division™. Independent 3rd-party analyses have corroborated these findings.
For the remaining outliers, AMD again sees multiple opportunities within the codebases of specific applications to improve how this software addresses the “Zen” architecture. We have already identified some simple changes that can improve a game’s understanding of the "Zen" core/cache topology, and we intend to provide a status update to the community when they are ready.
Overall, we are thrilled with the outpouring of support we’ve seen from AMD fans new and old. We love seeing your new builds, your benchmarks, your excitement, and your deep dives into the nuts and bolts of Ryzen. You are helping us make Ryzen™ even better by the day. You should expect to hear from us regularly through this blog to answer new questions and give you updates on new improvements in the Ryzen ecosystem.
Such topics as Windows 7 vs. Windows 10 performance, SMT impact, and thread scheduling will no doubt still be debated, and AMD has correctly pointed out that optimization for this brand new architecture will only improve Ryzen performance going forward. Our own findings as to Ryzen and the Windows 10 thread scheduler appear to be validated as AMD officially dismisses performance impact in that area, though there is still room for improvement in other areas from our initial gaming performance findings. As mentioned in the post, AMD will have an update for Windows power plan optimization by the first week of April, and the company has "already identified some simple changes that can improve a game’s understanding of the 'Zen' core/cache topology, and we intend to provide a status update to the community when they are ready", as well.
It is refreshing to see a company publicly acknowledging the topics that have resulted in so much discussion in the past couple of weeks, and their transparency is commendable, with every issue (that this author is aware of) being touched on in the post.