AMD to Add DirectFlip for DX12, Indicates FreeSync Incompatible with UWP Games

Subject: Graphics Cards | March 3, 2016 - 03:00 PM |
Tagged: uwp, radeon, dx12, amd

AMD's Robert Hallock, frequenter of the PC Perspective live streams and a favorite of the team here, is doing an AMAA on reddit today. While you can find some excellent information and views from Robert in that Q&A session, two particular answers stood out to me.

Asked by user CataclysmZA: Can you comment on the recent developments regarding Ashes of the Singularity and DirectX 12 in PC Perspective and Extremetech's tests? Will changes in AMD's driver to include FlipEx support fix the framerate issues and allow high-refresh monitor owners to enjoy their hardware fully? http://www.pcper.com/reviews/General-Tech/PC-Gaming-Shakeup-Ashes-Singularity-DX12-and-Microsoft-Store

Answer from Robert: We will add DirectFlip support shortly.

Well, there you have it. This is the first official notice I have from AMD that it is in fact its driver that was causing the differences in behavior between Radeon and GeForce cards in Ashes of the Singularity last week. It appears that a new driver will be incoming (sometime) that will enable DirectFlip / FlipEx, allowing exclusive full screen modes in DX12 titles. Some of our fear of the unknown can likely be resolved - huzzah!

View Full Size

Ashes of the Singularity wouldn't enter exclusive full screen mode on AMD Radeon hardware.

Another quesiton also piqued my interest:

Asked by user CataclysmZA: Can you comment on how FreeSync is affected by the way games sold through the Windows Store run in borderless windowed mode?

Answer from Robert: This article discusses the issue thoroughly. Quote: "games sold through Steam, Origin [and] anywhere else will have the ability to behave with DX12 as they do today with DX11."

While not exactly spelling it out, this answer seems to indicate that for the time being, AMD doesn't think FreeSync will work with Microsoft Store sold games in the forced borderless windowed mode. NVIDIA has stated that G-Sync works in some scenarios with the new Gears of War (a Universal Windows Platform app), but it seems they too have issues. 

As more informaiton continues to come in, from whatever sources we can validate, I'll keep you updated!

Source: reddit

March 3, 2016 | 03:36 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

Their driver again....isnt it always just that so whats new?
And when? Exactly, keep waiting as always.

March 4, 2016 | 05:59 PM - Posted by Cataclysm_ZA

As for when, probably at the end of this month, to fall in line with the Linux Radeon Software Crimson release.

March 3, 2016 | 04:44 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

So nVidia's as well, as to be expected with a new version of directx. Both are having issues. nVidia has other issues with directx plus it's slower in directx 12 than Radeon currently. So just chill and let them fix their stuff and see six months from now

March 3, 2016 | 04:56 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

Is there a method to verify if its running in DX11 not placebo DX12 like a check or drop down that gets ignored down the line.

What I'm asking if its possible the drivers is reverting back to DX11 through flags, profile, or exe.

Not all GPUs have all DX12 functions. It could be interesting to see if there is different workloads.

March 3, 2016 | 05:36 PM - Posted by Photonboy (not verified)

Choose DX11 or DX12 in the game settings.

March 3, 2016 | 06:01 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

How does that answer the question

March 3, 2016 | 07:27 PM - Posted by Photonboy (not verified)

If he means DX12 vs DX11 games in GENERAL, then you'll have game settings. If the card doesn't support any DX12 features the DX12 options will be greyed out.

We already have examples of games that support different combinations of DX9-DX11 features.

I don't think games "drop out" of a specific mode once it's launched. What is supported is available in the settings, and if there's some major support issue it would likely just crash.

So perhaps I'm confused by the initial statement, but it's my understanding that if you choose any DX12 feature (which won't necessarily be labelled as "DX12") then you're running on the DX12 API.

March 3, 2016 | 08:48 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

Developers have said the program will flag the driver for a DX12 feature and if it doesn't have it then it reverts back.

Its unclear if by reverting back it means that feature or the entire API.

Like some of the early DX12 games talk about async in the render engine does these mean those games using a async compatible GPU able to receive more instruction per unit to be rendered thus an increase in workload even if the GPU is capable of it as compared to a GPU which doesn't.

March 5, 2016 | 12:47 PM - Posted by Scott Michaud

You can use ListDLLs from Sysinternals to see whether a process is attached to D3D12, but that doesn't tell you everything. For instance, they could acquire both a DX11 and a DX12 context, and you wouldn't know what functions are being called where.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-ca/sysinternals/bb896656.aspx

Also, I'm not sure how the sandboxing issues (etc.) will affect this.

March 3, 2016 | 04:58 PM - Posted by J Nevins (not verified)

390x Review?

March 6, 2016 | 06:57 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

it's good

March 3, 2016 | 06:10 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

SO gaming will be chained to M$'s WDDM and DX12/DX11, and what about the more open standard DP Adaptive Dync! More UWPs and less open gaming for evem more M$ lock-in! Its just more of the three Es form Redmond.

March 3, 2016 | 11:40 PM - Posted by Certion (not verified)

If developers really want to break free from being constrained to Microsoft and their plans, they would've made it OpenGL or in the future Vulkan and not use DirectX in the first place. But if you make a game with DX in mind, you have to work with Windows quirks.

I imagine games running on Mac or Linux have no problems with G/Freesync if they support it.

March 5, 2016 | 01:00 AM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

"Adaptive Dync"? Sounds great.

March 4, 2016 | 06:33 AM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

Freesync is garbage, DX12 is garbage, trying to force everything through their idiotic compositer and having 60FPS 60Hz caps just because majority of monitors is 60Hz is idiotic

March 4, 2016 | 06:38 AM - Posted by Batismul (not verified)

Game devs could make it that you can run the games on Windows but in the games graphics menu select which API to use like back in the old days, drop down menu for DirectX - OpenGL - Vulkan - 3DFX Glide etc etc.

Look at how fast and easy it was to implement by a small studio,
PC Game: The Talos Principle

http://i.imgur.com/gvlaTwp.jpg

nuff said, devs just need to do this if Microsoft with their DX12 dont listen.

March 4, 2016 | 10:02 AM - Posted by Juni0rM1nt (not verified)

Here's an exert from TheGuardian, I read today. Coming from Co-Founder of Epic Games, Tim Sweeney
In my view, if Microsoft does not commit to opening PC UWP up in the manner described here, then PC UWP can, should, must and will, die as a result of industry backlash. Gamers, developers, publishers simply cannot trust the PC UWP “platform” so long as Microsoft gives evasive, ambiguous and sneaky answers to questions about UWP’s future, as if it’s a PR issue. This isn’t a PR issue, it’s an existential issue for Microsoft, a first-class determinant of Microsoft’s future role in the world.

March 4, 2016 | 10:16 AM - Posted by Batismul (not verified)

All devs please jump on Vulkan and we PC Gamers will buy those games and choose Vulcan API in the graphics menu drop down box!

March 5, 2016 | 01:11 AM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

Don't you want applications that can run on your Xbox, your Windows PC, your windows laptop, your windows (x86) tablet, and your windows (x86) phone? You can have near perfect security by buying all software through the windows store. You don't have to risk getting malware by downloading software from untrusted sources. It will be just like the Apple ecosystem, right?

March 5, 2016 | 01:11 AM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

Don't you want applications that can run on your Xbox, your Windows PC, your windows laptop, your windows (x86) tablet, and your windows (x86) phone? You can have near perfect security by buying all software through the windows store. You don't have to risk getting malware by downloading software from untrusted sources. It will be just like the Apple ecosystem, right?

March 5, 2016 | 01:19 AM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

Does g-sync work with UWP applications? If so, how? It seems like Windows really should just support variable refresh rate, even with just the desktop. It might be nice to actually be able to watch videos at the actual frame rate of the video, or some multiple, depending on the capabilities of the display. This could cause issues with multiple applications wanting different refresh rates though I guess.

Post new comment

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd> <blockquote><p><br>
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.

More information about formatting options

By submitting this form, you accept the Mollom privacy policy.