Subject: Graphics Cards, Processors | August 3, 2018 - 04:41 PM | Ryan Shrout
Tagged: Zen, Vega, SoC, ryzen, China, APU, amd
Continuing down the path with its semi-custom design division, AMD today announced a partnership with Chinese company Zhongshan Subor to design and build a new chip to be utilized for both a Chinese gaming PC and Chinese gaming console.
The chip itself will include a quad-core integration of the Zen processor supporting 8 threads at a clock speed of 3.0 GHz, no Turbo or XFR is included. The graphics portion is built around a Vega GPU with 24 Compute Units running at 1.3 GHz. Each CU has 64 stream processors giving the “Fenghuang” chip a total of 1536 SPs. That is the same size GPU used in the Kaby Lake-G Vega M GH part, but with a higher clock speed.
The memory system is also interesting as Zhongshan Subor has integrated 8GB of GDDR5 on a single package. (Update: AMD has clarified that this is a GDDR5 memory controller on package, and the memory itself is on the mainboard. Much more sensible.) This is different than how Intel integrated basically the same product from AMD as it utilized HBM2 memory. As far as I can see, this is the first time that an AMD-built SoC has utilized GDDR memory for both the GPU and CPU outside of the designs used for Microsoft and Sony.
This custom built product will still support AMD and Radeon-specific features like FreeSync, the Radeon Software suite, and next-gen architecture features like Rapid Packed Math. It is being built at GlobalFoundries.
Though there are differences in the apparent specs from the leaks that showed up online earlier in the year, they are pretty close. This story thought the custom SoC would include a 28 CU GPU and HBM2. Perhaps there is another chip design for a different customer pending or more likely there were competing integrations and the announced version won out due to cost efficiency.
Zhongshan Subor is a Chinese holding company that owns everything from retail stores to an education technology business. You might have heard its name in association with a gluttony of Super Famicom clones years back. I don’t expect this new console to have near the reach of an Xbox or PlayStation but with the size of the Chinese market, anything is possible if the content portfolio is there.
It is interesting that despite the aggressiveness of both Microsoft and Sony in the console space in regards to hardware upgrades this generation, this Chinese design will be the first to ship with a Zen-based APU, though it will lag behind the graphics performance of the Xbox One X (and probably PS4 Pro). Don’t be surprised if both major console players integrate a similar style of APU design with their next-generation products, pairing Zen with Vega.
Revenue for AMD from this arrangement is hard to predict but it does get an upfront fee from any semi-custom chip customer for the design and validation of the product. There is no commitment for a minimum chip purchase so AMD will see extended income only if the console and PC built around the APU succeeds.
Enthusiasts and PC builders have already started questioning whether this is the type of product that might make its way to the consumer. The truth is that the market for a high-performance, fully-integrated SoC like this is quite small, with DIY and SI (system integrator) markets preferring discrete components most of the time. If we remove the GDDR5 integration, which is one of the key specs that makes the “Fenghuang” chip so interesting and expensive, I’d bet the 24 CU GPU would be choked by standard DDR4/5 DRAM. For now, don’t hold out hope that AMD takes the engineering work of this Chinese gaming product and applies it to the general consumer market.
Subject: General Tech | July 3, 2018 - 05:55 PM | Tim Verry
Tagged: SoC, SFF, sapphire, ryzen v1000, ryzen embedded, ryzen, APU, amd
Sapphire Technologies is now partnering with AMD to offer up a new small(ish) 5"x5" form factor system for embedded applications featuring AMD's Ryzen Embedded V1000 SoC APUs. The Sapphire FS-FP5V is a 5.8"x5.5" motherboard that pairs the V1000 SoC with Zen CPU cores and Vega GPU with dual channel DDR4 3200 MHz SODIMM memory slots, two M.2 slots, a single SATA 3 port, dual Ethernet, and four DisplayPort outputs supporting up to four 4K displays.
The 5x5 motherboard uses a V1000 APU that is soldered to the board though the website does not specify which model Sapphire is using. The V1000 series includes APUs ranging from 12W to 54W with up to four (Zen) cores / 8 threads, a Vega-based GPU with up to 11 CUs, 2MB L2 cache, and 4MB shared L3 cache. The SoC further has AMD's PSP security processor and support for dual 10GbE though Sapphire's board only uses two Gigabit NICs (Realtek RTL8111G). Realtek chips are also used for the four channel audio solution (ALC262). The M.2 2280 can operate in PCI-E 3.0 x4 or SATA modes while the smaller M.2 2242 slot uses PCI-E x1 and can accommodate Wi-Fi cards or smaller SSDs. The FS-FP5V board also features serial RS232 and GPIO support and the motherboard is powered by a single 19V DC input.
Rear I/O includes two USB 2.0 ports (there's also one on the front), one USB 3.1 Type-C, four DisplayPort outputs, two RJ-45 GbE jacks, and a single audio output.
Sapphire plans to sell its new 5x5 board to system integrators as well as directly through their website. A video from AMD shows off the board as well as examples from Sapphire partners of SFF cases and 2x2 display walls. The new platform is aimed at video gaming systems (think casinos, arcades, and video gambling machines in bars), digital signage, large display walls, point of sale systems, and medical imaging (high resolution display outputs for medical scanning and diagnostics devices). There is no word on pricing or availability, but if you are interested there is a form you can fill out to get more information. It is nice to see AMD getting some design wins in the SFF space even if its not in consumer products yet (it's time for an AMD NUC competitor).
Update: Tom's Hardware managed to get their hands on some pricing details which show Sapphire will offer four models that vary by Ryzen Embedded processor used including:
- Ryzen Embedded V1202B (2 core / 4 thread + Vega 3) for $325
- Ryzen Embedded V1605B (4 core / 8 thread + Vega 8) for $340
- Ryzen Embedded V1756B (4 core / 8 thread + Vega 8) for $390
- Ryzen Embedded V1807B (4 core / 8 thread + Vega 11) for $450
The first two options are 12W to 25W TDP SoCs while the latter two are 35W to 54W processors. The V1202B is clocked at 2 GHz base and up to 3.6 GHz. Moving up to the V1605B gets two more cores at an every so slightly higher 2.06 GHz base and moves from Vega 3 to Vega 8 graphics (though still at the same 1,100 MHz clockspeeds). Stepping up to the V1756B gets a processor with a much higher 3.25 GHz base but hte same maximum boost and graphics as the V1605B. Finally, moving to the flagship V1807B SoC gets an APU clocked at 3.35 GHz base and 3.8 GHz boost with Vega 11 graphics clocked at 1,300 MHz. The boards will reportedly be available later this year (relatively soon) while the UDOO Bolt will be available next year at similar price points. In all the Sapphire board seems like a decent deal for setting up a homelab or media box (though I wish the storage situation was better) while the UDOO Bolt board is aimed more at developers and makers with the inclusion of Aruino pinouts and eMMC storage (The UDOO appears to top out at the V1605B chip as well.)
(End of Update.)
Subject: Motherboards | June 8, 2018 - 09:14 AM | Tim Verry
Tagged: ryzen 2000, ryzen, msi, computex 2018, computex, b450, APU, amd, AM4
One of the motherboards on display at the MSI booth was an updated AM4 socket Tomahawk series board that uses the new AMD B450 chipset. The MSI B450 Tomahawk is a refreshed motherboard for AMD Ryzen processors. The motherboard pairs the AM4 socket with four DDR4 DIMM slots, six SATA 6 Gbps ports, two PCI-E x16 slots, three PCI-E x1 slots, and a single M.2 slot.
The B450 Tomahawk is powered by an 8-pin and 24-pin power connector and appears to have a 4+2 power phase design which matches that of the current B350 Tomahawk. One thing that MSI has changed in that department is the heatsink over the VRMs which has been beefed with an "extended heatsink design" that up an extends to partially cover the rear I/O ports now. Other updates versus the B350 Tomahawk include the removal of two legacy PCI slots in favor of adding a third PCI-E x1 slot and the addition of two additional SATA ports in the lower left corner.
It is not clear what the board specifically has as far as rear I/O, but from the photos and press release it appears as though the VGA port may have been removed versus the previous generation board and it does have USB 3.1 Gen 2 along with Gigabit Ethernet and analog audio outputs (looking at the photos the audio hardware has slightly changed as well though it's hard to say to what extent).
MSI is not yet talking pricing or availability, but more information should be available soon. TechPowerUp has a hands on photo of the board here as well as a cheaper and cut down B450-A Pro motherboard.
Subject: General Tech, Processors | May 15, 2018 - 01:49 PM | Jeremy Hellstrom
Tagged: ryzen pro, amd, APU, ryzen 7 pro 2700u, Ryzen 5 Pro 2500U, Ryzen 3 Pro 2300U, Ryzen 5 Pro 2400G, Ryzen 5 Pro 2400GE, Ryzen 3 Pro 2200G
AMD have extended both their processor lineup as well as their names, by sticking Pro into the already verbose Ryzen 2 series, and added another letter to pay attention to as well. The 2xxxU series are mobile APUs which you won't see running around in the wild, the 2xxxG desktop series you certainly will, however there is also an E you need to pay attention to.
The Ryzen 5 Pro 2400G is a 65W part which will offer four multi-threaded cores topping out at 3.9GHz, with 11 Vega CUs and ships with the Wraith Stealth cooler. The Ryzen 5 Pro 2400GE is almost as similar as the name but tops out at 3.8GHz, also has 11 Vega CUs and sports an impressive TDP of 35W, which may be part of the reason why it doesn't ship with a cooler.
The series looks to offer a great choice for someone building a machine without a GPU installed, whether they intend to add one at a later time or not. The naming conventions being used by Intel and AMD are getting far too easy to confuse already, without adding possible confusion within single product lines. Let's hope this does not continue for too long. The Inquirer lists all the models, mobile and desktop, on this page.
"Alongside the usual specs, the chips all have the built-in security and onboard encryption features of the Ryzen Pro CPUs, designed to make them appeal for commercial and enterprise use."
Here is some more Tech News from around the web:
- Intel's First 10nm Cannon Lake CPU Sees the Light of Day @ Slashdot
- Surface Hub 2 coming in 2019, looks amazing @ Ars Technica
- How many ways can a PDF mess up your PC? 47 in this Adobe update alone @ The Register
- Analyzing Graphics Card Pricing: May 2018 @ TechSpot
- Apple MacBook butterfly keyboards 'defective', 'prone to fail' – lawsuit @ The Register
- DRAM Revenue in 1Q18 Rose by 5.4% QoQ to Another Record High as the Upswing of ASPs Continued, Says TrendForce @ DRAMeXchange
- Microsoft's Windows 10 April Update doesn't play nice with Toshiba SSDs either @ The Inquirer
- Arozzi Vernazza Gaming Chair @ TechPowerUp
Memory speed is not a factor that the average gamer thinks about when building their PC. For the most part, memory performance hasn't had much of an effect on modern processors running high-speed memory such as DDR3 and DDR4.
With the launch of AMD's Ryzen processors, last year emerged a platform that was more sensitive to memory speeds. By running Ryzen processors with higher frequency and lower latency memory, users should see significant performance improvements, especially in 1080p gaming scenarios.
However, the Ryzen processors are not the only ones to exhibit this behavior.
Gaming on integrated GPUs is a perfect example of a memory starved situation. Take for instance the new AMD Ryzen 5 2400G and it's Vega-based GPU cores. In a full Vega 56 or 64 situation, these Vega cores utilize blazingly fast HBM 2.0 memory. However, due to constraints such as die space and cost, this processor does not integrate HBM.
Instead, both the CPU portion and the graphics portion of the APU must both depend on the same pool of DDR4 system memory. DDR4 is significantly slower than memory traditionally found on graphics cards such as GDDR5 or HBM. As a result, APU performance is usually memory limited to some extent.
In the past, we've done memory speed testing with AMD's older APUs, however with the launch of the new Ryzen and Vega based R3 2200G and R5 2400G, we decided to take another look at this topic.
For our testing, we are running the Ryzen 5 2400G at three different memory speeds, 2400 MHz, 2933 MHz, and 3200 MHz. While the maximum supported JEDEC memory standard for the R5 2400G is 2933, the memory provided by AMD for our processor review will support overclocking to 3200MHz just fine.
Subject: Processors | February 16, 2018 - 08:52 AM | Sebastian Peak
Tagged: tim, thermal paste, Ryzen 5 2400G, ryzen, overclocking, der8aur, delidding, APU, amd
Overclocker der8auer has posted a video demonstrating the delidding process of the AMD Ryzen 5 2400G, and his findings on its effect on temperatures and overclocking headroom.
The delidded Ryzen 5 2400G (image credit der8auer via YouTube)
The full video is embedded below:
The results are interesting, but disappointing from an overclocking standpoint, as he was only able to increase his highest frequency by 25 MHz. Thermals were far more impressive, as the liquid metal used in place of the factory TIM did lower temps considerably.
Here are his temperature results for both the stock and overclocked R5 2400G:
The process was actually quite straightforward, and used an existing Intel delidding tool (the Delid Die Mate 2) along with a small piece of acrylic to spread the force against the PCB.
Delidding the Ryzen 5 2400G (image credit der8auer via YouTube)
The Ryzen 5 2400G is using thermal paste and is not soldered, which enables this process to be reasonably safe - or as safe as delidding a CPU and voiding your warranty ever is. Is it worth it for lower temps and slight overclocking gains? That's up to the user, but integration of an APU like this invites small form-factors that could benefit from the lower temps, especially with low-profile air coolers.
Subject: General Tech | February 8, 2018 - 11:21 AM | Ken Addison
Tagged: podcast, amd, raven ridge, 2500U, APU, Intel, xeon-d, dell, EPYC, vaunt, Tobii
PC Perspective Podcast #486 - 02/08/18
Join us this week for a recap of news and reviews including AMD Mobile APUs, new Xeon-D processors, EPYC offerings from Dell, and more!
The URL for the podcast is: http://pcper.com/podcast - Share with your friends!
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Hosts: Allyn Malventano, Jeremy Hellstrom, Josh Walrath, Ken Addison
Peanut Gallery: Alex Lustenberg
Program length: 1:16:53
Podcast topics of discussion:
Week in Review:
News items of interest:
0:27:45 Dell's Epyc package
Picks of the Week:
For the first time in several years, the notebook market has gotten very interesting from a performance standpoint. First, we had Intel’s launch of its Kaby-Lake Refresh 8th Generation processors which packed a true quad-core CPU into a 15W package. Then, we heard about AMD’s Raven Ridge which aimed to combine a quad-core mobile CPU with Radeon Vega graphics into that same 15W power target.
Even though the excitement over Raven Ridge may have subsided a bit after Intel and AMD’s joint announcement of Vega graphics combined with Intel CPUs in the Kaby-Lake G platform, that is still yet to be released and will reside in a significantly higher class of power usage.
So today we are taking a look at AMD’s Raven Ridge, what may be AMD’s first worthy entry into the thin-and-light notebook market.
For our Raven Ridge testing, we are taking a look at the HP Envy x360, which at the time of writing is the only machine to be shipping with these Ryzen Mobile processors (although more machines have been announced and are coming soon). Additionally, we also wanted to wait a while for the software ecosystem on this new platform to stabilize (more on that later).
Beating AMD and Analyst Estimates
January 30th has rolled around and AMD released their Q4 2017 results. The results were positive and somewhat unexpected. I have been curious how the company fared and was waiting for these results to compare them to the relatively strong quarter that Intel experienced. At the Q3 earnings AMD was not entirely bullish about how Q4 would go. The knew that it was going to be a down quarter as compared to an unexpectedly strong third quarter, but they were unsure how that was going to pan out. The primary reason that Q4 was not going to be as strong was due to the known royalty income that AMD was expecting from their Semi-Custom Group. Q4 has traditionally been bad for that group as all of their buildup for the holiday season came from Q1 and Q2 rampings of the physical products that would be integrated into consoles.
The results exceeded AMD’s and analysts’ expectations. They were expecting in the $1.39B range, but their actual revenue came in at a relatively strong $1.48B. Not only was the quarter stronger than expected, but AMD was able to pull out another positive net income of $61M. It has been a while since AMD was able to post back to back profitable quarters. This allowed AMD to have a net positive year to the tune of $43M where in 2016 AMD had a loss of $497M. 2017 as a whole was $1.06B more in revenue over 2016. AMD has been historically lean in terms of expenses for the past few years, and a massive boost in revenue has allowed them to invest in R&D as well as more aggressively ramp up their money making products to compete more adequately with Intel, who is having their own set of issues right now with manufacturing and security.
Subject: Processors | January 8, 2018 - 12:00 AM | Ryan Shrout
Tagged: Zen, Vega, ryzen, CES 2018, CES, APU, amd, 2400G, 2200G
Though AMD might not use the term APU anymore, that’s what we are looking at today. The Ryzen + Vega processor (single die implementation, to be clear) for desktop solutions will begin shipping February 12 and will bring high-performance integrated graphics to low cost PCs. Fully titled the “AMD Ryzen Desktop Processor with Radeon Vega Graphics”, this new processor will utilize the same AM4 socket and motherboards that have been shipping since March of 2017. Finally, a good use for those display outputs!
Though enthusiasts might have little interest in these parts, it is an important step for AMD. Building a low-cost PC with a Ryzen CPU has been difficult due to the requirement of a discrete graphics card. Nearly all of Intel’s processors have integrated graphics, and though we might complain about the performance it provides in games, the truth is that the value of not needing another component is crucial for reducing costs.
Without an APU that had both graphics and the company’s greatly improved Zen CPU architecture, AMD was leaving a lot of potential sales on the table. Also, the market for entry-level gaming in small form factor designs is significant.
Two models will be launching: the Ryzen 5 2400G and Ryzen 3 2200G. Clock speeds are higher than what exists on the Ryzen 5 1400 and Ryzen 3 1200 and match the core and thread count. The 2400G includes 11 Compute Units (704 stream processors) and the 2200G has 8 CUs (512 stream processors). The TDP of both is 65 watts.
The pricing configuration gives AMD some impressive placement. The $169 Ryzen 5 2400G will offer much better graphics performance than the $30 more expensive Core i5-8400 (based on current pricing) and has equivalent performance to the $100+ higher Core i5-8400 and NVIDIA GT 1030 discrete solution.
When looking at CPU performance, the new Ryzen processors offer higher scores than the units they are replacing. They do this while adding Vega graphics capability and matching or lower prices.
AMD even went as far to show the overclocking headroom that the Ryzen APU can offer. During an on-site demo we saw the Ryzen 5 2400G improve its 3DMark score by 39% with memory frequency and GPU clock speed increases. Moving the GPU clock from ~1100 MHz to 1675 MHz will mean a significant increase in power consumption, and I do question the size of the audience that wants to overclock an APU. Still – cool to see!
The Ryzen CPU with Vega graphics is a product we all expected to see, it’s the first perfect marriage of AMD’s revitalized CPU division and its considerable advantage in integrated graphics. It has been a long time since one of AMD’s APUs appeared interesting to me and stoked my desire to build a low-cost, mainstream gaming build. Looks for reviews in just a few short weeks!