How much will these Bitcoin mining configurations cost you in power?
Earlier this week we looked at Bitcoin mining performance across a large range of GPUs but we had many requests for estimates on the cost of the power to drive them. At the time we were much more interested in the performance of these configurations but now that we have that information and we started to look at the potential profitability of doing something like this, look at the actual real-world cost of running a mining machine 24 hours a day, 7 days a week became much more important.
This led us to today's update where we will talk about the average cost of power, and thus the average cost of running our 16 different configurations, in 50 different locations across the United States. We got our data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration website where they provide average retail prices on electricity divided up by state and by region. For use today, we downloaded the latest XLS file (which has slightly more updated information than the website as of this writing) and started going to work with some simple math.
Here is how your state matches up:
The first graph shows the rates in alphabetical order by state, the second graph in order from the most expensive to the least. First thing we noticed: if you live in Hawaii, I hope you REALLY love the weather. And maybe it's time to look into that whole solar panel thing, huh? Because Hawaii was SO FAR out beyond our other data points, we are going to be leaving it out of our calculations and instead are going to ask residents and those curious to just basically double one of our groupings.
Keep reading to get the full rundown on how power costs will affect your mining operations, and why it may not make sense to mine AT ALL with NVIDIA graphics cards!
Subject: Graphics Cards, Processors | July 13, 2011 - 02:13 PM | Ryan Shrout
Tagged: llano, dual graphics, crossfire, APU, amd, a8-3850, 3850
Last week we posted a short video about the performance of AMD's Llano core A-series of APUs for gaming and the response was so positive that we have decided to continue on with some other short looks at features and technologies with the processor. For this video we decided to investigate the advantages and performance of the Dual Graphics technology - the AMD APU's ability to combine the performance of a discrete GPU with the Radeon HD 6550D graphics integrated on the A8-3850 APU.
For this test we set our A8-3850 budget gaming rig to the default clock speeds and settings and used an AMD Radeon HD 6570 1GB as our discrete card of choice. With a price hovering around $70, the HD 6570 would be a modest purchase for a user that wants to add some graphical performance to their low-cost system but doesn't stretch into the market of the enthusiast.
The test parameters were simple: we knew the GPU on the Radeon HD 6570 was a bit better than that of the A8-3850 APU so we compared performance of the discrete graphics card ALONE to the performance of the system when enabling CrossFire, aka Dual Graphics technology. The results are pretty impressive:
You may notice that these percentages of scaling are higher than those we found in our first article about Llano on launch day. The reasoning is that we used the Radeon HD 6670 there and found that while compatible by AMD's directives, the HD 6670 is overpowering the HD 6550D GPU on the APU and the performance delta it provides is smaller by comparison.
So, just as we said with our APU overclocking video, while adding in a discrete card like the HD 6570 won't turn your PC into a $300 graphics card centered gaming machine it will definitely help performance by worthwhile amounts without anyone feeling like they are wasting the silicon on the A8-3850.
Subject: General Tech | July 13, 2011 - 12:08 PM | Jeremy Hellstrom
Tagged: amd, finance
At The Inquirer you can read a counterpoint to a recent analysts comments on the failure of AMD in the current market. It seems that APUs are not hot ... even though that is exactly what Intel's SandyBridge processors are whether they call them that or not. The analyst is unimpressed with the performance of the CPU portion of Llano, which is understandable as most of us were underwhelmed with its performance. He completely glosses over half of Llano, calling it "integrated graphics circuitry" and giving no recognition to the fact that it is the fastest iGPU ever seen and can even earn you Bitcoins. As The Inquirer points out, the size graphics portion of the APU on AMD opens up quite a bit of utility that people just aren't programming for and while the CPU portion is clocked lower it performs true multithreaded apps much more efficeintly.
He then goes on to denegrate AMD's chances in the server room, citing Intel's Xeon refresh. What is strange is that Intel's move to 22nm in 2012 is somehow much more of a safe bet that AMD's first generation of Bulldozer for the server room. Both are new architectures and while Intel is generally a safe bet, AMD and GF are also a team to bet on. He also misses mention of AMD's Terramar and Sepang, which will compete directly with the Xeon E7 lineup and apparently has no idea about ARM's plans whatsoever.
Can't argue his point about the lack of a CEO though.
AMD's Quarter 2 2011
"A CHIP ANALYST at JMP Securities has downgraded AMD, alleging that the company's APU and server offerings aren't in sync with the needs of its retail partners and are falling behind the competition, both of which, if true, are damaging for AMD's prospects."
Here is some more Tech News from around the web:
- Intel set to release 7 series-based Z, H and Q series chipsets in 2Q12 @ DigiTimes
- Bitcoin Mining GPU Performance Comparison @ [H]ard|OCP
- The Art of Tweaking @ Hardware Secrets
- Hynix and Toshiba push next generation MRAM @ The Inquirer
- Yes to Lion, no to cruft: get a clean start with manual Mac migration @ Ars Technica
- TSMC reiterates plans to commercially produce 28nm chips later in 2011 @ DigiTimes
- Belkin N750 DB Wireless N+ Router Review @ TechReviewSource
- Gabriel Torres on Computer America Radio Show - 07/13/2011 @ Hardware Secrets
- Quadrotor Roundup @ Make:Blog
- Real World Labs And FinalWire Joint Contest
What is a Bitcoin?
This article looking at Bitcoins and the performance of various GPUs with mining them was really a big team effort at PC Perspective. Props goes out to Tim Verry for doing the research on the process of mining and helping to explain what Bitcoins are all about. Ken Addison did a great job doing through an alottment of graphics cards running our GUIMiner and getting the data you will see presented later. Scott Michaud helped with some graphics and imagery and I'm the monkey that just puts it all together at the end.
** Update 7/13/11 ** We recently wrote another piece on the cost of the power to run our Bitcoin mining operations used in this performance article. Based on the individual prices of electric in all 50 states of the US, we found that the cost of the power to run some cards exceeded the value of the Bitcoin currency based on today's exchange rates. I would highly recommend you check out that story as well after giving this performance-based article a thorough reading. ** End Update **
A new virtual currency called Bitcoin has been receiving a great deal of news fanfare, criticism and user adoption. The so called cryptographic currency uses strong encryption methods to eliminate the need for trust when buying and selling goods over the Internet in addition to a peer-to-peer distributed timestamp server that maintains a public record of every transaction to prevent double spending of the electronic currency. The aspect of Bitcoin that has caused the most criticism and recent large rise in growth lies in is its inherent ability to anonymize the real life identities of users (though the transactions themselves are public) and the ability to make money by supporting the Bitcoin network in verifying pending transactions through a process called “mining” respectively. Privacy, security, cutting out the middle man and making it easy for users to do small casual transactions without fees as well as the ability to be rewarded for helping to secure the network by mining are all selling points (pun intended) of the currency.
When dealing with a more traditional and physical local currency, there is a need to for both parties to trust the currency but not much need to trust each other as handing over cash is fairly straightforward. One does not need to trust the other person as much as if it were a check which could bounce. Once it has changed hands, the buyer can not go and spend that money elsewhere as it is physically gone. Transactions over the Internet; however, greatly reduce the convenience of that local currency, and due to the series of tubes’ inability to carry cash through the pipes, services like Paypal as well as credit cards and checks are likely to be used in its place. While these replacements are convenient, they also are much riskier than cash as fraudulent charge-backs and disputes are likely to occur, leaving the seller in a bad position. Due to this risk, sellers have to factor a certain percentage of expected fraud into their prices in addition to collecting as much personally identifiable information as possible. Bitcoin seeks to remedy these risks by bringing the convenience of a local currency to the virtual plane with irreversible transactions, a public record of all transactions, and the ability to trust strong cryptography instead of the need for trusting people.
There are a number of security measures inherent in the Bitcoin protocol that assist with these security goals. Foremost, bitcoin uses strong public and private key cryptography to secure coins to a user. Money is handled by a bitcoin wallet, which is a program such as the official bitcoin client that creates public/private key pairs that allow you to send and receive money. You are further able to generate new receiving addresses whenever you want within the client. The wallet.dat file is the record of all your key pairs and thus your bitcoins and contains 100 address/key pairs (though you are able to generate new ones beyond that). Then, to send money one only needs to sign the bitcoin with their private key and send it to the recipient’s public key. This creates a chain of transactions that are secured by these public and private key pairs from person to person. Unfortunately this cryptography alone is not able to prevent double spending, meaning that Person A could sign the bitcoin with his private key to Person B, but also could do the same to Person C and so on. This issue is where the peer-to-peer and distributed computing aspect of the bitcoin protocol come into play. By using a peer-to-peer distributed timestamp server, the bitcoin protocol creates a public record of every transaction that prevents double spending of bitcoins. Once the bitcoin has been signed to a public key (receiving address) with the user’s private key, and the network confirms this transaction the bitcoins can no longer be spent by Person A as the network has confirmed that the coin belongs to Person B now, and they are the only ones that can spend it using their private key.
Keep reading our article that details the theories behind Bitcoins as well as the performance of modern GPUs in mining them!
Subject: Mobile | July 11, 2011 - 11:49 PM | Matt Smith
Tagged: mobile radeon, hd 6990m, amd radeon, amd
Few competitors love to one-up each other more than AMD and NVIDIA, and in that spirit the red team has today announced the release of its new Radeon HD 6990M just two weeks after NVIDIA claimed the limelight with its GTX 570M and 580M.
No, this isn’t a dual-GPU solution like the desktop version. Despite the name, the HD 6990M is not based off the Cayman architecture used in the HD 6990 but instead on Barts XT. According to AMD, the decision to use Barts XT rather than Cayman was based on power efficiency. Cramming Cayman into a notebook chassis, even one with an 18” display, wasn’t a viable option. Still, AMD claims that this new mobile GPU will be the world’s quickest, beating even NVIDIA’s new GTX 580M.
The HD 6990M will be shipping with impressive specifications including a whopping 1120 Stream Processors with a clock speed of 715 MHz, bringing the compute power to 1.6 TFlops. This is paired to 2GB of GDDR5 memory at 900 MHz, making for memory bandwidth of over 115 GB/sec.
Data supplied by AMD.
UPDATE (7/12/11 @ 10:00am): AMD contacted us to let me know the benchmark results we posted with this news release needed to be changed. The NEW results from the presentation show the difference between the Radeon HD 6970M and the Radeon HD 6990M to be much less AND the difference between the HD 6990 and NVIDIA's GeForce GTX 580M to be MUCH smaller. I have asked AMD for an explanation here and we'll see what we get later today.
The company’s press material shows the HD 6990M defeating the already available HD 6970M by approximately 25% in a number of games. If the part performs as promised, it should indeed be a difficult for NVIDIA to defeat – but we’ll have to wait for a review before making a judgment.
Data supplied by AMD.
Besides its blazing fast performance, the new GPU will offer the typical suite of AMD features including full support for DirectX 11, Eyefinity, Crossfire, HD3D, and driver-based power management features like PowerExpress and Vari-Bright.
Several laptops have been announced as available with the including the Clevo P170HM, P150HM and X7200, the Alienware M18x, and unspecified laptops from Eurocom. The HD 6990M should be available for order on the M18x as of today.
Subject: General Tech | July 8, 2011 - 12:37 PM | Jeremy Hellstrom
Tagged: nvidia, amd, 28nm, kepler, maxwell
TSMC's 28nm wafer yields are having a negative effect on NVIDIA's scheduled release of their next generation of GPUs, no matter what the PR coming out of NVIDIA might suggest. That news is coming from graphics card manufacturers who were hoping to release cards but have since seen NVIDIA's scheduled releases delayed by a year. While it may be true that TSMC is partly to blame for the delay there is also talk about the chips performance being lower than was expected and is needed to challenge AMD. The news for NVIDIA gets even worse as DigiTimes confirms that AMD is still on schedule with it's 28nm chips. This may seem like a bit of deja vu, as we saw similar production problems from TSMC's initial 40nm chips; though that effected both major GPU makers more or less equally.
"Despite Nvidia CEO Huang Jen-hsun previously saying that the company is set to announce its new 28nm GPU architecture at the end of 2011 and 22/20nm in 2013, sources from graphics card makers have pointed out that Nvidia has already adjusted its roadmap and delayed 28nm Kepler and 22/20nm Maxwell to 2012 and 2014.
The sources believe that the delay is due to unsatisfactory yield rates of Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company's (TSMC) 28nm process as well as lower-than-expected performance of Kepler.
TSMC originally expected its 28nm capacity at Fab15 to be available in the fourth quarter of 2011 and was set to start pilot production for its 20nm process technology in the third quarter of 2012.
However, TSMC's other major client Qualcomm, currently, still has not yet adjusted its 28nm process schedule and is set to launch three new products, 8960. 8270 and 8260A using dual-core Krait architecture in the fourth quarter of 2011.
Meanwhile, AMD will follow its original schedule and enter the 28nm era in the first half of 2012. The company's next-generation graphics chips Southern Island as well as Krishna and Wichita processors, which will replace the existing Ontraio and Zacate processors, and will all adopt a 28nm process from TSMC."
Here is some more Tech News from around the web:
- IA releases a dual-core 1.6GHz EPIA board @ The Inquirer
- Ubuntu ushers me out of the Windows XP era @ The Tech Report
- Your Friday must-see video: 14 minute Bioshock Infinite demo @ Ars Technica
- Last flight of the Space Shuttle: a 30-year retrospective @ Ars Technica
- Google: Go public on Profiles or we'll delete you @ The Register
- AMD's Brazos E-450 detailed @ Fudzilla
- Only jailbroken iPhones, iPads can be safe from latest vuln @ The Register
- TRENDnet 450Mbps Wireless N USB Adapter @ Maximum CPU
- ASUS USB-N13 802.11n Network Adapter Review @ ThinkComputers
- The Summer of Honeycomb, Part 1: Win an ASUS Eee Pad Transformer @ AnandTech
- Modders-Inc Junes's FRotM Winner - The Ultimate Computer Desk
PC Perspective Podcast #161 - AMD Llano Desktop review, the Samsung Droid Charge, RevoDrive 3 X2 and more!
Subject: General Tech | July 7, 2011 - 04:25 PM | Ken Addison
Tagged: podcast, llano, Intel, APU, amd, a8-3850
PC Perspective Podcast #161 - 7/07/2011
This week we talk about our AMD Llano Desktop review, the Samsung Droid Charge, RevoDrive 3 X2 and more!
The URL for the podcast is: http://pcper.com/podcast - Share with your friends!
- iTunes - Subscribe to the podcast directly through the iTunes Store
- RSS - Subscribe through your regular
- MP3 - Direct download link to the MP3 file
Hosts: Ryan Shrout, Jeremy Hellstrom, Josh Walrath and Allyn Malventano
This Podcast is brought to you by
- 0:01:03 Introduction
- 1-888-38-PCPER or email@example.com
- http://twitter.com/ryanshrout and http://twitter.com/pcper
- 0:01:45 AMD A8-3850 Llano Desktop Processor Review - Can AMD compete with Sandy Bridge?
- 0:25:15 Samsung Droid Charge Review: The Droid Brand Goes 4G
- 0:26:20 This Podcast is brought to you by
, and their all new Sandy Bridge Motherboards!
- 0:27:15 RevoDrive 3 article comments
- 0:35:25 VIA Technologies To Sell Of Its Stake in S3 Graphics
- 0:38:15 Meet Hondo, AMD's soon to arrive 2W TDP Brazos chip for tablets ... and Apache servers?
- 0:45:50 Just Delivered: ASUS ROG MATRIX GeForce GTX 580 1.5GB Graphics Card
- 0:50:20 Video Perspective: Corsair Special Edition White Graphite Series 600T Case
- 0:52:45 Video Perspective: AMD A-series APU Overclocking and Gaming Performance
- 0:59:25 Quakecon Reminder - http://www.quakecon.org/
- 1:01:24 Hardware / Software Pick of the Week
- Ryan: AMD A-series APU system ~ $430
- Jeremy: Kogan offers free hdmi cable to cut the UK cable con
- Josh: Cheap!
- Allyn: http://www.jailbreakme.com
- http://twitter.com/ryanshrout and http://twitter.com/pcper
- 1:10:20 Closing
Subject: General Tech | July 7, 2011 - 12:46 PM | Jeremy Hellstrom
Tagged: ps4, xbox, Nintendo, consoles, amd, E3, cell processor
[H]ard|OCP heard quite a bit about the new generation of consoles via the grape vine at E3. The big winner is AMD, who will be providing the graphical power for all three of the next generation of major consoles as well as being in the running for putting a Bulldozer APU inside Sony's next game system. IBM is the other competitor for providing Nintendo's core with an updated Cell processor, which also will be running in the next generation XBox. Nintendo is also going with IBM, though they are looking at a custom built 45nm CPU. This is very good news for AMD, with a guaranteed presence in every console and a possible hardware monopoly with Sony.
"Guys talk, you hear things. And at this year's E3 HardOCP picked up a lot of information about the upcoming hardware in the next generation consoles. It will be interesting to see if our rumor mill churns up truth or fiction. We wanted to get this out the week after E3, but we had some I's to dot and some T's to cross."
Here is some more Tech News from around the web:
- Flashy Intel flash specs leak @ The Register
- Major ISPs agree to "six strikes" copyright enforcement plan @ Ars Technica
- Facebook adds Skype video chat @ The Inquirer
- Intel's Gallium3D Driver After Google's Work @ Phoronix
- Hackers booby-trap an Android racing game with malware @ The Inquirer
- Hobby Micro Distilling @ Make:Blog
- Revising Cinema for the Blu-ray age - Where to draw the line? @ Tweaktown
- Weekly Giveaway #5: Hearts Of Iron III Game Bundle @ eTeknix
- July Bjorn3D Folding @ Home Contest, Your Chance to Win a Gigabyte A75M-D2H
- Real World Labs And IN WIN Joint Contest
Subject: Graphics Cards, Motherboards, Processors | July 6, 2011 - 08:15 PM | Ryan Shrout
Tagged: amd, llano, APU, a-series, a8, a8-3850, overclocking
We have spent quite a bit of time with AMD's latest processor, the A-series of APUs previously known as Llano, but something we didn't cover in the initial review was how overclocking the A8-3850 APU affected gaming performance for the budget-minded gamer. Wonder no more!
In this short video we took the A8-3850 and pushed the base clock frequency from 100 MHz to 133 MHz and overclocked the CPU clock rate from 2.9 GHz to 3.6 GHz while also pushing the GPU frequency from 600 MHz up to 798 MHz. All of the clock rates (including CPU, GPU, memory and north bridge) are based on that base frequency so overclocking on the AMD A-series can be pretty simple provided the motherboard vendors provide the multiplier options to go with it. We tested a system based on a Gigabyte and an ASRock motherboard both with very good results to say the least.
We tested 3DMark11, Bad Company 2, Lost Planet 2, Left 4 Dead 2 and Dirt 3 to give us a quick overall view of performance increases. We ran the games at 1680x1050 resolutions and "Medium"-ish quality settings to find a base frame rate on the APU of about 30 FPS. Then we applied our overclocked settings to see what gains we got. Honestly, I was surprised by the results.
While overclocking a Llano-based gaming rig won't make it compete against $200 graphics cards, getting a nice 30% boost in performance for a budget minded gamer is basically a no-brainer if you are any kind of self respecting PC enthusiast.
Subject: Processors | July 6, 2011 - 04:41 PM | Tim Verry
Tagged: llano, APU, amd
Newegg recently opened up its Llano inventory to consumers, with both the A6-3650 and A8-3850 now in stock. The new AMD APUs represent a combination of AMD graphics and CPU, and are an interesting option for low cost systems on both the budget gaming machines using integrated graphics and small form factor HTPC systems.
Our you ready for Llnao? Why not join the discussion over in the forums and advocate whether Llnao is deserving of Hardware Leaderboard status?