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Frame Rating: GTX 660 vs HD 7870, plus HD 7790, HD 7850, GTX 650 Ti BOOST

Author: Ryan Shrout
Manufacturer: PC Perspective

Skyrim - HD7850, HD 7790, GTX 650 Ti, GTX 650 Ti BOOST

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (DirectX 9)


 

The Empire of Tamriel is on the edge. The High King of Skyrim has been murdered.

Alliances form as claims to the throne are made. In the midst of this conflict, a far more dangerous, ancient evil is awakened. Dragons, long lost to the passages of the Elder Scrolls, have returned to Tamriel.

The future of Skyrim, even the Empire itself, hangs in the balance as they wait for the prophesized Dragonborn to come; a hero born with the power of The Voice, and the only one who can stand amongst the dragons.

Our settings for Skyrim

Here is a video our testing run through, for your reference

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No runt or drop issues with single GPUs, so the results only tell us about the relative performance of each GPU.  The GTX 650 Ti BOOST is the fastest cards for Skyrim at 1920x1080 followed by the HD 7850, the HD 7790 and finally the GTX 650 Ti.

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Both the GTX 650 Ti and the HD 7790 are showing significant hitching and stutter issues compared to the HD 7850 and the newer GTX 650 Ti BOOST.

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The average frame rate over the course of our run show the GTX 650 Ti BOOST and the HD 7850 nearly equal at 80 FPS or so with the HD 7790 hitting 51 FPS and the GTX 650 Ti just breaching 40 FPS.  Notice though that the GTX 650 Ti BOOST does separate a bit after the 65th percentile in favor of the NVIDIA card.

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Clearly the frame time variance of the HD 7790 and the GTX 650 Ti are being adversely affected by the hitches and stutters we saw in our frame time plot.

 

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The GTX 650 Ti BOOST and the HD 7850 appear to be pretty even again in performance and the HD 7790 and original GTX 650 Ti are pretty even but a solid jump down.

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Ouch, if the hitches in our 1920x1080 testing were bad, the results here at 2560x1440 are much worse, in particular with the HD 7790.  Both the HD 7850 and the GTX 650 Ti BOOST are consistent with only a couple of spikes.

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Both of our higher end cards makes Skyrim completely playable at 2560x1440, something we can't say for the two slower cards in our testing.

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As it turns out both the HD 7790 and the GTX 650 Ti have much more frame variance than the HD 7850 and GTX 650 Ti BOOST.  This is the kind of interesting data that looking at average frame rates just can't provide!

April 7, 2013 | 09:00 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

I just saw a video from valve discussing a tool called Telemetry from RAD games, it seems like it could be useful for analysis of game performance.

April 8, 2013 | 07:41 AM - Posted by Pendulously (not verified)

SUGGESTION FOR FRAME VARIANCE GRAPH:

You have already noted elsewhere that Percentile (1-99) is insufficient, for tracking large SPIKES in Frame Times, spikes which may occur only once every few seconds (i.e., once every few hundred frames, thus well beyond the 99th percentile threshold).

So you need a different dependent variable (x-axis), with 'milliseconds' remaining the independent variable (y-axis).

In a 10 minute gampeplay section (36000 Frames at 60 FPS), 36 Frames is equivalent to the 99.9th percentile (36000 divided by 1000).

If you put '36' on the x-axis (or perhaps multiples of 10), you could easily show people the effects of LARGE SPIKES IN FRAME TIMES. In many cases/circumstances, more illuminating than Frame Variance Graphs which show nothing beyond the 99th percentile.

April 8, 2013 | 08:52 AM - Posted by Stennan (not verified)

Are there any redeeming features to AMDs Crossfire solution?

April 8, 2013 | 11:06 AM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

Yes, they drop every other frame in crossfire and count it anyway and sell it to their fans as a superior frame rate than SLI.

AMS CF Frame numbers sold 80!(actual screen rate 40+stutter ! )

Wow it sure beats 76 from SLI !

Yes, a very "redeeming" quality.

April 10, 2013 | 06:12 AM - Posted by Stennan (not verified)

Thank you for not answering my question :)

I just wanted to know if there might be an upside with regards to perhaps input lag. Kind of hard to measure though.

April 11, 2013 | 01:17 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

Ok, here's a few thoughts. With the AMD runts and drops, and the fans now trying to claim "less input lag", my question is of course, "What are you aiming at?" !

With every other frame dropped or runted, you're getting ~50% of the game screen opponent positions from the frames displayed (first person shooter as an example of course since most games are that ) - so your opponents position on screen is "jumping" from one frame over to two frames ahead, changing position in a lurch - with that type of inaccuracy of on screen opponents, how is "less lag" going to help when one cannot see half the positions of the opposition, and aiming at those in between spots just is not directly occurring? you have no visual data for those positions, half the positions of your opponent !

You can see how that may present some real issues for the gamer, as far as firing accuracy.
Yes, one could develop a sort of compensation with practice, just like a similar amount of consistent input lag is gotten used to as the mind and muscles acclimate and compensate accordingly.

So, it appears to me missing frames and runts are anything but helpful, and the lag thenno lag, or the lag not running in sync with what appears on screen could be a real problem.

With equalized frame time outputs to screen, the "smoothness" factor certainly helps aiming at opponents and learning to time things correctly.

April 10, 2013 | 06:13 AM - Posted by Stennan (not verified)

Thank you for not answering my question :)

I just wanted to know if there might be an upside with regards to perhaps input lag. Kind of hard to measure though.

April 9, 2013 | 03:45 AM - Posted by fadeout (not verified)

Are we seeing that crossfire is inherently borked? Or are we seeing that the current drivers are not leveraging the potential of the hardware?

I'm thinking that drivers can be updated.

A note on the fanboy thingy, surely we need both companies to succeed to push one another to create ever faster and more powerful cards. No?

April 9, 2013 | 07:44 AM - Posted by bystander (not verified)

The problem has persisted at least two series of cards, but based on AMD's response, it likely has always existed. AMD had said they never considered frame metering. Instead, they had been focusing on delivering frames as fast as possible.

That to me would say the drivers were not borked per say, they just weren't trying to do anything about it. They weren't even aware of it.

Nvidia has their metering done with special hardware, but AMD believes they can do the same with software, which they probably can, though it may not be as ideal.

April 9, 2013 | 07:23 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

Not sure why the 660 is being compared to a 7870. MSRP is over $100 difference. 7850 makes more sense to me but there must be a good reason the 7870 was chosen.

April 9, 2013 | 07:57 PM - Posted by bystander (not verified)

The GTX 660 is the cheaper of the two cards. You must have the GTX 660ti in mind.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130826
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127699

April 13, 2013 | 12:32 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

The reason is a big fat smooch on the behind of amd and their fanboys.
Keep the raging natives a bit less restless.
You see, only 2 pages of comments, they didn't come in screaming bias while their radeon I don't believe any of this and "if it's true" it doesn't matter heads exploded.

They have all been made absolute idiots, as the years of their stupidity is apparent.

The years of them screeching no one can see over 30 fps anyway is exposed. It doesn't matter what they knew or did not know, they made every excuse and lie and fanboy promo they could over the course of years and now it is absolutely clear they were seeing only half the frames gobbled with screen wretching runts, but still claimed it was beauty incarnate.

They are fools, and we all know it.

April 11, 2013 | 12:15 PM - Posted by Arek (not verified)

It would be nice to see how a pair of gtx 580's fares, as I have these in my setup. Pretty please! *_*

April 13, 2013 | 04:21 PM - Posted by Johnny Rook (not verified)

I can't stress enough how amazing this is.

I have one or two questions though:

1. Is the ATI/AMD Dual-GPU cards like the HD7990 have the same "problems" has dual cards in SLi?

I have an HD5970 and I do recognize there are problems as far as stutter is concerned but, I notice, I have a clear visual "feeling" that something is not right in a very few games. Mostly those "heavy" titles like "Metro2033" and the new "Crysis 3".

2. Is the problem something related to the hardware itself, is it drivers or is it a mix of both?

April 13, 2013 | 04:31 PM - Posted by Johnny Rook (not verified)

Sorry, I meant "problems has dual cards in Crossfire?"

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