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Frame Rating Dissected: Full Details on Capture-based Graphics Performance Testing

AMD CrossFire and Eyefinity Concerns

It will become painfully apparent as we dive through the benchmark results on the following pages, but I feel that addressing the issues that CrossFire and Eyefinity are creating up front will make the results easier to understand.  We showed you for the first time in Frame Rating Part 3, AMD CrossFire configurations have a tendency to produce a lot of runt frames, and in many cases nearly perfectly in an alternating pattern.  Not only does this mean that frame time variance will be high, but it also tells me that the value of performance gained by of adding a second GPU is completely useless in this case.  Obviously the story would become then, “In Battlefield 3, does it even make sense to use a CrossFire configuration?”  My answer based on the below graph would be no.

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Another issue that cropped up with the AMD configurations in CrossFire mode showed its face when we tried 5760x1080 testing.  In nearly every case, an AMD CrossFire dual-GPU configuration running an Eyefinity configuration at 5760x1080 showed alternating dropped frames.  Whereas with single monitor gaming we were seeing some full game frames being turned into runts at the display, with Eyefinity those frames were missing completely (seen as missing overly colors from the expected pattern). 

This actually caused two things to happen.  First, our Perl scripts and data generation would sometimes error out completely (after the capture and extraction steps) because the code was never able to find the initial sequence of 16 colors in the correct order to validate the video capture.  We are still working on a fix for this in order to present that information in a useable format, but for now we will point out specifically when that occurred.  Secondly, the frame rates were smoother!  Without the runts getting in the way of the animation sequences the motion on the screen was actually more fluid than it would have been otherwise, but don’t take this as a vindication of what AMD’s Eyefinity is actually doing.  While the animation is smoother, you are still not seeing any benefit from the second card in your CrossFire configuration and you could view it simply as wasted investment.

Finally, we saw some interesting visual problems in our captures of Eyefinity that cause us to raise some eyebrows.  Because the overlay changes colors with every frame I was able to notice some instances where the digital scan out of the graphics cards were not matching up; frames were being split by other frames.

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This second screen uses an alternate overlay for specific multi-GPU scenarios

At first I was afraid something was going on with our capture hardware, that somehow the EDID of the Datapath VisionDVI-DL card was incorrectly communicating with the AMD GPUs.  But in fact, we saw several problems and inconsistencies with AMD’s graphics performance when more than one display was attached to the system, even if we were NOT in an Eyefinity setup!  As I later learned, enabling Vsync actually does not work at all with Eyefinity and that, combined with the results I have seen (of which the screenshot above is an indicator) with our testing, lead me to believe that something is fundamentally wrong with AMD’s Eyefinity implementation.  And if it’s not “wrong”, it is definitely counter intuitive.  We’ll be asking AMD for more information in the coming weeks and hope to get more information from them as our Frame Rating process evolves. 

 

For our first set of data we are going to be looking at the Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition and the GeForce GTX 680 in both single and dual-GPU combinations.  By looking at the high-end graphics cards first we can set a baseline for what to expect moving forward into the mid-range options and even mainstream.

March 29, 2013 | 04:16 PM - Posted by John Doe (not verified)

Horse shit:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1703048

March 27, 2013 | 02:36 PM - Posted by John Doe (not verified)

Moral of the story, get this before it goes out of stock:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187196

It's a card of very limited availability and is one hell of a damn good card.

Best cooler, only Tantalum caps and no cylindrical caps over VRM area, backplated, best looking. Such a boss. Reminds me of those black 68 Mustang Bosses.

March 27, 2013 | 12:30 PM - Posted by Mountainlifter (not verified)

Great Job, Ryan and team. No, Amazing job. I've been following your frame rating articles from the first one and I've been waiting for this full reveal for a long time.

I do hope you show some frame rating benches for the GTX TITAN too (cause I own one now).

I am finding it tough not to conclude that AMD's two GPU system is completely broken although it baffles me that a company of their scale could not detect/think of such issues.

They have been known to take shortcuts on drivers before. http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/567681-should-i-switch-out-m... (I'm only getting this from a reliable NBR forumer).

March 27, 2013 | 01:38 PM - Posted by John Doe (not verified)

AMD drivers are put out by a single guy called Catalyst Maker... he has a little team to help him out, but after all, he's just one guy.

That's why they suck.

It's been this way for AGES. The last cards that didn't in one way or another suck, were the X1950's which were made by ATi and not AMD.

Also, dual 7900 setups aren't "completely broken". That's just your pointless assumption.

If there's anything that's "completely broken", it's your wallet for shelling out $1000 for a dumbass card.

March 27, 2013 | 01:51 PM - Posted by Josh Walrath

AMD/ATI used to have a smaller driver team than NV, but actually when AMD bought ATI and started down the APU path... they hired a lot more folks to support these products.  Catalyst Maker was originaly Terry Makedon, but he has moved onto marketing more than software development.  There are (iirc) several groups now working on drivers, but their workload is arguably greater than it was before.  Supporting several different architectures spanning from GPUs to APUs is certainly no easy task, and I think they continue to hire more people.  Reviews like this provide a lot more impetus inside companies to improve their products, and the software drivers certainly are the quick fix are for AMD now.

I think that NV still has a larger driver team, and that massive server room that pretty much only works on nightly builds of drivers from NV is still much bigger than what AMD has.  However, AMD is not as far behind as many think.  But obviously from what we have seen here, and read about from other sources, their focus was not exactly where it needed to be.

March 29, 2013 | 03:12 AM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

That's nice and all to amd but it looks like half a decade of total screw job right now, and outright fraud.

March 27, 2013 | 10:27 PM - Posted by Mountainlifter (not verified)

just leave this website man.

March 27, 2013 | 10:29 PM - Posted by Mountainlifter (not verified)

Would you kindly... leave this website man. Thanks.

March 27, 2013 | 10:29 PM - Posted by Mountainlifter (not verified)

Would you kindly... leave this website man. Thanks.

March 27, 2013 | 10:31 PM - Posted by Mountainlifter (not verified)

Was addressing john doe, not walrath.

March 28, 2013 | 12:16 AM - Posted by Josh Walrath

Heh, you can address me.  It won't offend.  As long as I don't offend Ryan, I could be good.

March 29, 2013 | 05:43 AM - Posted by John Doe (not verified)

Hey mountainlifter, would you lift my T-Bird if it gets stuck on a mountain?

Lift my cock while you're there as well.

GG.

March 29, 2013 | 12:14 PM - Posted by Justin Anderson (not verified)

I agree John Doe is retarded and needs to leave. I think he's is trying to pick up dudes on this site he keeps telling people to suck his dick. Why don't you just go to chat roulette if you want to get your rocks off man.

March 29, 2013 | 12:14 PM - Posted by Justin Anderson (not verified)

I agree John Doe is retarded and needs to leave. I think he's is trying to pick up dudes on this site he keeps telling people to suck his dick. Why don't you just go to chat roulette if you want to get your rocks off man.

March 29, 2013 | 12:15 PM - Posted by Justin Anderson (not verified)

I agree, John Doe is retarded and needs to leave. I think he's is trying to pick up dudes on this site he keeps telling people to suck his dick. Why don't you just go to chat roulette if you want to get your rocks off man.

March 29, 2013 | 03:43 PM - Posted by John Doe (not verified)

LOL that's hilarious.

That's all.

Hahaha.

April 2, 2013 | 10:51 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

Don't tell the truth, the haterz then come forth...

I mean how many times can we give AMD the most gigantic pass ?

Not on this - this new tech with the single card to suck up the actual frames delivered to the end gamer screen with the quad SSD's to take all that in on the fly - this is called PROGRESS, and it has exposed a huge, huge amd flaw.

I feel sorry for all those foolish amd fanboys who screamed at me to buy two amd and crossfire it's a better deal and OC and blah blah blah blah - it's now a big joke.

All those "top crossfire amd gamerz" denying what was right on their screens before them - now the scientific facts show what was before them runts and ghost frames...

I haven't seen a bigger emerging scandal in the video card wars ever.

I am very interested in seeing how it plays out. Of course I will accept NO EXCUSES from amd or their fans. I never have before, but this is an even bigger mess up than even I considered AMD capable of pulling, and that is saying an aweful lot.

You just keep doing your thing and laughing at the haterz, they should be ashamed of themselves honestly.

I want to see if they went with runt and ghost frames after the 69xx series was outed as junk for crossfire by HardOcp with Terry Makedon there in the forums- AMD "became aware" according to that head Cat Maker that there "was a problem" and my guess is the solution was runts and ghosts.
That would keep the DAMAGE to the last 2 major series - but I want data all the way back to 3870/3870X2 to see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

March 27, 2013 | 01:52 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

so basically what i'm getting from this story and the one at anand is that amd has been reviewed over the years with inflated fraps #s due to more runt and drop frames that are no good to gamers?

March 27, 2013 | 02:30 PM - Posted by Noah Taylor (not verified)

You are absolutely right, AMD's setups have fraudulently inflated their benchmark numbers for years which have helped them sell products and grow their % of discrete market share. This really is the most groundbreaking reveal I've ever come across in the gaming industry.

March 27, 2013 | 02:42 PM - Posted by John Doe (not verified)

It's not like nVidia hasn't done it either:

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/NVIDIA/7950GX2/images/singlebenchlow.jpg

March 27, 2013 | 02:43 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

Yeah, I'm sure AMD's share of the discrete market has grown thanks to inflated Xfire numbers. I mean, so many people have multi-GPU setups in the first place, amirite?

Plus, jumping to the conclusion that there's deliberate "fraud" going on can only be the result of deluded fanboy thought processes. Considering FCAT is the first tool that can really show this behavior, it's rather more reasonable to believe that AMD was simply unaware of it.

March 27, 2013 | 04:04 PM - Posted by John Doe (not verified)

Alright, let me get it the easily way for you.

What the hell does the inflated CF performance figures have to do with the frame latencies? NOTHING.

The frame latency is a problem only because AMD has yet to be able to completely man up the GCN architecture.

April 3, 2013 | 11:27 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

No, fraps showed the problem, and the extended FCAT has only highlighted it even more.
The other thing that showed the problem - countless end user complaints, many times raging radeon fanboys screaming you cannot see beyond 30fps because "the human eye is incapable of it", something we call fanboy fantasy, apologetics, excuses, denial, brain washed psycho hardcore amd total verdetrol absolutist.
There are a lot of them, and that unfortunately has allowed amd to scam the entire industry for this long.

You see we still have a boatload of deniers here. Total amd fanboys, nothing will ever change their minds, no facts are facts they can accept if the facts prove amd sucks.

March 29, 2013 | 12:15 PM - Posted by Anonymous (not verified)

Yes it is, but the river in Egypt will start to grow to cover the entire earth for the amd fanboys, oh wait it already has.

BURNED in the extreme, the failure of crossfire, the scam of the decade.
Ghosts and runts, but boy oh boy our fps looks frappalicious !

LOL - so, so pathetic.

nVidia's SLI monsters ? ZERO runts, ZERO ghost frames.
PERFECTION incarnate.

Let's review:
nVidia - perfect execution, no cheating no runts, no ghost frames
amd - lying failure, HALF OF THE FRAMERATE IS A LIE. ghost runt every other frame !

ROFL amd you truly suck as bad as I have been saying for half a decade, wait no, you are worse.

Now we will get treated to endless excuses, denials, it doesn't matter, who cares, and all the rest of the radeon ragers standard operating apologetic procedures they have gang banged on the net for years.

Watch for this development: amd fanboys new spewing propaganda
" using two cards is a hassle, you should buy a single card, and just upgrade when the next best single card comes out like the 7970 with how great it is. Who wants to waste money on two cards, it's like <1% of gamers, so no one really does this at any end user level except fanatics, it's just not needed and is a budget buster. "

LOL - A thousand excuses already coming

March 27, 2013 | 03:21 PM - Posted by Wingless (not verified)

How does changing Render Frame Ahead/Pre-Rendering affect Crossfire and SLI? In Battlefield 3, people are saying it gets smoother if you change it to 0 or 1 vs the default value of 3.

Thanks for your great analysis and extremely informative video.

March 28, 2013 | 09:56 AM - Posted by Wingless (not verified)

Battlefield 3
Guide: How to Fix Low FPS - Stuttering - Lag
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654347723598222/

There is a well documented stuttering fix for both Nvidia and AMD users on multiple forums. I've tried this for my HD 4870 Crossfire setup and it works. This particular user from the above link has a NVIDIA GTX 470.

5.Open notepad and paste this into it and save it as "user.cfg" inside your "program files/origingames/battlefield3" folder:

RenderDevice.TripleBufferingEnable 0
RenderDevice.ForceRenderAheadLimit 1
WorldRender.SpotLightShadowmapResolution 256
WorldRender.SpotlightShadowmapEnable 0
Render.DrawFps 1

With this applied to the game, are there any differences? Render Ahead seems to really affect these results and it would be nice if it were tested with FCAT.

Thanks

March 29, 2013 | 04:40 PM - Posted by John Doe (not verified)

Do you like Winger?

They're really a crappy band but they have some decent stuff LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWSVGcivuGs

March 27, 2013 | 03:43 PM - Posted by Randy (not verified)

Absolutely fantastic work Ryan. This article really blew me away and gave me a lot of tools to better understand what I've been dealing with at home. One question though: you point out that vsync can solve most of amds problems provided the frame rate doesn't have to drop from 60 to 30, in which case the drastic stutter caused by such a change adversely impacts smoothness. What if instead of using vsync you used a frame rate limit that corresponded with the apps average framerate? This way when the frame rate dips below that threshold it isn't cutting its' self in half as it would with vsync and in theory not introducing nearly as much stutter.

I advised my friend to do this with his dual 6950 setup in far cry 3 and he said it gave excellent subjective performance. I used the same method for my single 7970 and also noticed a nice bump to the smoothness of the game, but again this is all subjective. It would be awesome if you could test this as if proven correct it would give a lot of amd owners the tools to make the best of a bad situation.

Again thanks for the tremendous work you've done here, this is truly awesome work.

March 27, 2013 | 04:43 PM - Posted by grommet

Quick question- Could Lucidlogix's Virtual Vsync technology help out with the CrossFire issues?
http://www.lucidlogix.com/technology-virtual-v-sync.html
Not that this would let AMD off the hook as this needs to be taken care of in-house, but could it help?

March 27, 2013 | 05:02 PM - Posted by Anon (not verified)

That's a nice question.

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