PC Perspective Podcast #338 – 02/26/2015
Join us this week as we discuss more USB 3.1 Devices, Broadwell NUC, another 840 Evo fix and more!
You can subscribe to us through iTunes and you can still access it directly through the RSS page HERE.
The URL for the podcast is: https://pcper.com/podcast – Share with your friends!
- iTunes – Subscribe to the podcast directly through the iTunes Store
- RSS – Subscribe through your regular RSS reader
- MP3 – Direct download link to the MP3 file
Hosts: Ryan Shrout, Jeremy Hellstrom, Allyn Malventano, and Sebastian Peak
Program length: 1:46:04
-
EVGA Contest Winner!
-
Week in Review:
-
News item of interest:
-
Question: Alex from Sydney
-
Just a quick question regarding DirectX 12. I’m planning to buy a new graphics card soon but I want a DirectX 12 card for all the fancy new features so I’m considering either the GTX 970 or 980, the question I have is are these real DirectX 12 cards? Since DirectX 12 development is still ongoing how can these cards be fully DirectX 12 complaint?
-
-
Hardware/Software Picks of the Week:
-
Ryan: Prime95
-
Jeremy: Not SSL anyways; old become new is much more pleasant
-
Sebastian: Moto E 2nd Edition
-
-
Closing/outro
Subscribe to the PC Perspective YouTube Channel for more videos, reviews and podcasts!!
Tom Petersen is a marketing
Tom Petersen is a marketing guy. Next time you have him on ask him what happened and why those decided not to disclose the information about the 970.
He will likely have no
He will likely have no comment or something vague to say provided by Nvidia’s legal department, I doubt there will be much transparency apparent from discovery in court.
USB 3.1 on laptops, USB 3.1
USB 3.1 on laptops, USB 3.1 benchmarked on laptops, that’s what I’m waiting for, Thunderbolt(TB) became the new firewire, but at least there will be USB 3.1, and some faster system Image Backups on laptops, without the big costs of Blunderbolt’s(TB) fast but unavailable/unaffordable solutions. Knowing laptop OEMs the USB type-c plug form factor will probably arrive first, attached to a USB 3.0/2.0 controller, but it is smaller, and maybe laptops will get more USB ports.
USB 3.1 is not oging to be a
USB 3.1 is not oging to be a huge push on laptops until laptop internal storage moves completely away from SATA / mSATA.
I talking about USB 3.1 for
I talking about USB 3.1 for external storage/backup, and not so much internal storage SATA/mSATA, USB 3.0 has my laptop system image backups in the 25 min range, so maybe half of that for USB 3.1. I’m still on regular hard drives internally, but I do see what you are saying with the maximum speeds of internal SATA/mSATA being the bottleneck. SATA 3 is 6Gbs, USB 3.1 10Gbs, so very little extra benefit. Will USB 3.1 show up in High end gaming/other laptops first, within the next year, or is a longer period before USB 3.1 will actually arrive on any laptops?
Hey Ryan. What makes you so
Hey Ryan. What makes you so sure, that GCN does not fully support DX12?
Have a look at this thread.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2422223
Also, considering that Xbox One will be upgraded to DX12 (or some kind of derivative version) that would mean it could not fully support it either. MS would shoot themselves in the foot.
Why do you even care what
Why do you even care what Ryan says? Given the kind of nonsense that typically comes form him nothing he says should be taken seriously.
I’m glad we have experts like
I'm glad we have experts like you chiming in to clear those things up.
Well, but Ryan was asked as
Well, but Ryan was asked as an “expert” and i don’t think his answer was based on facts. So far, neither AMD nor Nvidia have made a distinction between “supporting” DX12 and the actual (Hardware) Feature Level.
Both “support” DX12, that’s it. Both IHVs did not really specify what “support” actually means and historically we can say that Nvidia is a bit dishonest when it comes to “supporting” features levels, see DX11.1 and DX11.2.
Also how can he be sure that, Nvidia supports DX12 fully and given that a gpu design takes at least two years?
I just think he should be a bit more careful when “claiming” something.
Welcome to PCPerspective.
Welcome to PCPerspective. Where opinion trumps facts.
I disagree…… lol…..
I disagree…… lol….. trololololo
Not commenting as to whether
Not commenting as to whether you are right or wrong, but have to say what a cowardly fucking dickhead you are for making these allegations and using “anonymous.” At least register and be responsible for your allegations. ZoA did not hide behind “anonymous.”
Hey now, don’t poke the
Hey now, don't poke the trolls. That's my jerb!
I’m the guy who posed the
I’m the guy who posed the initial question and the follow up. All I’m asking is for Ryan to provide a strong source (as in first hand from AMD) for his claims. It’s just that I follow the “story” pretty closely and both IVHs and Intel as well (and obv. MS) didn’t really provide comprehensive statements towards DX12, the feature level and whether they meant software and/or hardware support.
The way I understand it: GCN and Fermi onwards will support DX12 at the Software Level.
The Hardware Feature Support was not fully disclosed yet and both vendors were kind of evasive and were only stressing the “support” for DX12.
For me it looks like the same situation we had with DX 11.2 (and other versions, too). Nvidia claimed full support for a while, while their architectures did not meet the feature level support (dx 11_2). Maxwell GM2xx could support it but imho it’s not set in stone.
On the other hand i cannot believe that GCN will not support the feature level when MS tries to bring DX12 to their console as well. If Ryan has that exclusive information, that’s fine by me. All I ask is for him to confirm that he got that information first hand from AMD.
I then also wonder why Tonga and therefore possibly Carrizo will not have full hardware support for DX12. Both Maxwell Gen2 and Tonga should be in the same design phase.
I sincerely think that this is not trolling.
choriso , construction gear ?
choriso , construction gear ? Ha ha so funny … NOT !
How long until motherboards
How long until motherboards with built in USB 3.1 controllers?
What would be a reasonable premium for this?
lol why do the trolls wath
lol why do the trolls wath the podcast haha,
yay joshtekk next week !!!
Love that Ryan says he did
Love that Ryan says he did not think nvidia needed to do anything and all of you guys agree like little peons scared to voice a dissenting opinion. Sebastian, the 980 is not a flagship and even a real flagship should not cost $580. The 970 is not $200 less than the flagship, as the flagship will not be released until amd releases the 900 series. Allyn, so it is okay for the first person or so to get the refund, but the rest of the people are just opportunists with so much money that they should not have bothered. Fuck you for that. I guess none of you saw nvidia’s earnings report. They made a shitload of money and had huge margins, and it was entirely from the desktop gpu segment. So no need to worry about their having to give a bit back to the people they have been gauging forever. And fuck you cowards for all falling in line with Ryan. Grow some and have some integrity. BTW, love you all anyway.
Guess I get now why people say you guys are sirens for nvidia. You really don’t need to be as they need you more than you need them, as crazy as that sounds.
I agree that a flagship card
I agree that a flagship card shouldn’t be $580. That’s why I waited until the price dropped before I bought my current GPU – an AMD R9 290X (gasp) that I found on sale for $330 in November.
Maybe instead of flagship I should have said “980”, but it really doesn’t matter. Regardless of how poorly I might have made my argument there is no way to assuage the situation when conversation is supplanted by the inflammatory remarks above. Too bad.
I imagine many of the readers
I imagine many of the readers are college students and many, like most Americans, can be pushed into financial ruin with an unexpected $500 medical bill, for instance. Flagship GPU’s and 1 tb ssd’s that are not loaded with crappy tlc, basic stuff for a good gaming rig, are out of reach for most people, unless they are stupid enough to borrow to get luxuries they cannot afford, as most Americans are. I suppose many of the people owning iphones + ipads + macbooks are also spending beyond their means.
Your statement that few will notice that the 970 has 0.5GB of slower memory is reason why no one should care that Nvidia was disingenuous. If a company puts a minute amount of a toxic substance in their product and does not say, should we not care because no one will notice? If a bank takes a penny from every account each month on the sly, should we not care because we will not notice the penny lost? Nvidia is deceptive in so many ways because they can be and they are enjoying huge profits and ridiculously large margins as a result. Allyn says people are being petty for trying to get a few dollars back. Why? Is Nvidia being petty for getting every dollar they can from people who can’t afford it?
Bottom line. Not everyone who visits the site has as much money as Ryan and Allyn, and most people want to be treated fairly and honestly. There is no excuse for deceptive business practices. Clearly Nvidia is the dishonest and opportunistic party, not the poor folks trying to get a few dollars back. Amazon is being terrific, btw, and if Nvidia is not reimbursing them, then Nvidia is even more fucked up than I thought.
Over the years I’ve always
Over the years I’ve always been a price/performance shopper, and this meant pouring over benchmarks and trying to pick a part that I thought would get me as far as possible with a set price limit. This meant never paying for the top components of any generation. I didn’t get a HD 5870 until it was a generation old, and I was a GTX 560 Ti user later on. My last NVIDIA card was a GTX 770, which was essentially the previous year’s GTX 680 with faster GDDR5. My decision to get a 770 was based on the fact that it was $329, and the 780 was $200 more. If the stats on the box had been wrong it wouldn’t have changed the frame rates I saw in games over the next 12 months before upgrading again.
Add to this the fact that I was playing on a 1080p monitor at the time and the difference between the 770 and 780 was even less important for me.
My point about the 970 is this: if I wanted an NVIDIA card in 2015 and chose to spend $330 rather than $580, I’m basing that decision on price. I’d totally take a 980 for the same money if the retailer wanted to sell it for that, but they won’t. The spec correction debacle certainly looks bad for NVIDIA, but as a consumer I didn’t base my purchase on ROP count, I based in on frame rates and frame times in game benchmark results – and of course price.
Maybe the real argument should be about the price of these things in general. If the 970 was the same price as the GTX 750 Ti from last year would anyone care as much about the issue?
I’m not saying it isn’t an issue, and now it’s a legal thing so clearly it is to enough people. The problem to me is jumping on this to get a partial refund. I would understand if you wanted to return the card and use that $330 to buy an R9 290X for the same money. But to say that you deserve a partial refund means that are valuing the specs of a 3.5GB card at a lower retail than a 970 with 4GB, and that’s where I just get lost. Does that mean it should be $299? $279? How much more than a 960 should a 970 be? I feel like this argument should be accompanied by some argument about fair pricing.
Anyway, you don’t seem to agree with us and that’s fine – debate is healthy and if the people get money back or the price goes down consumers are winning. I just want to see the new AMD 380/390 cards already so we have something new to talk about!!
I get your argument, and it
I get your argument, and it makes a lot of sense. No doubt you are a very smart guy. We are not really that far apart, though you might think otherwise. I so agree with respect to framerates rather than rop counts and getting what you expected notwithstanding how Nvidia’s markets it.
Part is fair play to me. If Nvidia can be and is being opportunistic, by charging more than they need to, to the delight of wall street, then some people with a lot less resources who have been behind the success of Nvidia on wall Street, should not be faulted for trying to get a few bucks back.
And I am sorry, but I feel Ryan and Allyn are out of touch; it would be nice to see Josh and Jeremy, the struggling guys, say something with a bit of passion such as “That is still a shitload of money for most of us no matter how you rationalize it.”
And big fucking deal if I am an asshole sometimes in these posts. I am an asshole for sure, but I am always nice and respectful to people in person, which is the best I can manage. So give me a break and expect shit from me and respond intelligently as you do and all will be well.