NVIDIA Confirms Clock Speed, Power Increases at High Refresh Rates, Promises Fix

Subject: Graphics Cards | November 6, 2015 - 04:05 PM |
Tagged: ROG Swift, refresh rate, pg279q, nvidia, GTX 980 Ti, geforce, asus, 165hz, 144hz

Last month I wrote a story that detailed some odd behavior with NVIDIA's GeForce GTX graphics cards and high refresh rate monitors, in particular with the new ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q that has a rated 165Hz refresh rate. We found that when running this monitor at 144Hz or higher refresh rate, idle clock speeds and power consumption of the graphics card increased dramatically.

The results are much more interesting than I expected! At 60Hz refresh rate, the monitor was drawing just 22.1 watts while the entire testing system was idling at 73.7 watts. (Note: the display was set to its post-calibration brightness of just 31.) Moving up to 100Hz and 120Hz saw very minor increases in power consumption from both the system and monitor.

powerdraw.png

But the jump to 144Hz is much more dramatic – idle system power jumps from 76 watts to almost 134 watts – an increase of 57 watts! Monitor power only increased by 1 watt at that transition though. At 165Hz we see another small increase, bringing the system power up to 137.8 watts.

When running the monitor at 60Hz, 100Hz and even 120Hz, the GPU clock speed sits comfortably at 135MHz. When we increase from 120Hz to 144Hz though, the GPU clock spikes to 885MHz and stays there, even at the Windows desktop. According to GPU-Z the GPU is running at approximately 30% of the maximum TDP.

We put NVIDIA on notice with the story and followed up with emails including more information from other users as well as additional testing completed after the story was posted. The result: NVIDIA has confirmed it exists and has a fix incoming!

In an email we got from NVIDIA PR last night: 

We checked into the observation you highlighted with the newest 165Hz G-SYNC monitors.
 
Guess what? You were right! That new monitor (or you) exposed a bug in the way our GPU was managing clocks for GSYNC and very high refresh rates.
 
As a result of your findings, we are fixing the bug which will lower the operating point of our GPUs back to the same power level for other displays.
 
We’ll have this fixed in an upcoming driver.

This actually supports an oddity we found before: we noticed that the PG279Q at 144Hz refresh was pushing GPU clocks up pretty high while a monitor without G-Sync support at 144Hz did not. We'll see if this addresses the entire gamut of experiences that users have had (and have emailed me about) with high refresh rate displays and power consumption, but at the very least NVIDIA is aware of the problems and working to fix them.

I don't have confirmation of WHEN I'll be able to test out that updated driver, but hopefully it will be soon, so we can confirm the fix works with the displays we have in-house. NVIDIA also hasn't confirmed what the root cause of the problem is - was it related to the clock domains as we had theorized? Maybe not, since this was a G-Sync specific display issue (based on the quote above). I'll try to weasel out the technical reasoning for the bug if we can and update the story later!

ASUS ROG is Swiftly filling the monitor market; meet the PG27AQ

Subject: Displays | November 2, 2015 - 05:23 PM |
Tagged: asus, ASUS ROG, ROG Swift, swift PG27AQ, ips display, 4k, 60hz

The 165Hz G-SYNC compatible ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q was recently on the PCPer review bench, garnering a Gold Award for its performance.  Kitguru recently wrapped up a review of a slightly different model, the ROG Swift PG27AQ.  Like the other model it is a 27" IPS display which supports G-SYNC, however only to 60Hz as it is a 4K (3840×2160) monitor.  The bandwidth required to provide adaptive refresh at higher than 60Hz on a 4K display just isn't really available yet, so you have to make a choice between a high resolution or a high maximum refresh rate.  Next year we will see monitors capable of this as the DisplayPort interface is updated.  For now take a look at the review to see which you prefer between resolution and refresh rate.

ROG_Swift_PG27AQ650px.jpg

"The ROG Swift PG27AQ is a 4K gaming monitor from Asus that supports Nvidia G-Sync up to 60Hz. It’s a 27-inch IPS display with a 4ms response time and a 10-bit colour panel. Add on a flexible stand with pivot, tilt and rotate support, with a redesigned software interface, and it could be a contender for the best gaming display on the market."

Here are some more Display articles from around the web:

Displays

 

Source: Kitguru

Podcast #373 - Samsung 950 Pro, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, Steam Link and more!

Subject: General Tech | October 29, 2015 - 03:22 PM |
Tagged: podcast, video, Samsung, 950 PRO, NVMe, asus, ROG Swift, pg279q, g-sync, nvidia, amd, steam, steam link, valve

PC Perspective Podcast #373 - 10/29/2015

Join us this week as we discuss the Samsung 950 Pro, ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q, Steam Link and more!

You can subscribe to us through iTunes and you can still access it directly through the RSS page HERE.

The URL for the podcast is: http://pcper.com/podcast - Share with your friends!

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Hosts: Ryan Shrout, Josh Walrath, Allyn Malventano, and Sebastian Peak

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Testing GPU Power Draw at Increased Refresh Rates using the ASUS PG279Q

Subject: Graphics Cards, Displays | October 24, 2015 - 04:16 PM |
Tagged: ROG Swift, refresh rate, pg279q, nvidia, GTX 980 Ti, geforce, asus, 165hz, 144hz

In the comments to our recent review of the ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q G-Sync monitor, a commenter by the name of Cyclops pointed me in the direction of an interesting quirk that I hadn’t considered before. According to reports, the higher refresh rates of some panels, including the 165Hz option available on this new monitor, can cause power draw to increase by as much as 100 watts on the system itself. While I did say in the review that the larger power brick ASUS provided with it (compared to last year’s PG278Q model) pointed toward higher power requirements for the display itself, I never thought to measure the system.

To setup a quick test I brought the ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q back to its rightful home in front of our graphics test bed, connected an EVGA GeForce GTX 980 Ti (with GPU driver 358.50) and chained both the PC and the monitor up to separate power monitoring devices. While sitting at a Windows 8.1 desktop I cycled the monitor through different refresh rate options and then recorded the power draw from both meters after 60-90 seconds of time to idle out.

powerdraw.png

The results are much more interesting than I expected! At 60Hz refresh rate, the monitor was drawing just 22.1 watts while the entire testing system was idling at 73.7 watts. (Note: the display was set to its post-calibration brightness of just 31.) Moving up to 100Hz and 120Hz saw very minor increases in power consumption from both the system and monitor.

But the jump to 144Hz is much more dramatic – idle system power jumps from 76 watts to almost 134 watts – an increase of 57 watts! Monitor power only increased by 1 watt at that transition though. At 165Hz we see another small increase, bringing the system power up to 137.8 watts.

Interestingly we did find that the system would repeatedly jump to as much as 200+ watts of idle power draw for 30 seconds at time and then drop back down to the 135-140 watt area for a few minutes. It was repeatable and very measurable.

So, what the hell is going on? A look at GPU-Z clock speeds reveals the source of the power consumption increase.

powerdraw2.png

When running the monitor at 60Hz, 100Hz and even 120Hz, the GPU clock speed sits comfortably at 135MHz. When we increase from 120Hz to 144Hz though, the GPU clock spikes to 885MHz and stays there, even at the Windows desktop. According to GPU-Z the GPU is running at approximately 30% of the maximum TDP.

Though details are sparse, it seems pretty obvious what is going on here. The pixel clock and the GPU clock are connected through the same domain and are not asynchronous. The GPU needs to maintain a certain pixel clock in order to support the required bandwidth of a particular refresh rate, and based on our testing, the idle clock speed of 135MHz doesn’t give the pixel clock enough throughput to power anything more than a 120Hz refresh rate.

refreshsetup.jpg

Pushing refresh rates of 144Hz and higher causes a surprsing increase in power draw

The obvious question here though is why NVIDIA would need to go all the way up to 885MHz in order to support the jump from 120Hz to 144Hz refresh rates. It seems quite extreme and the increased power draw is significant, causing the fans on the EVGA GTX 980 Ti to spin up even while sitting idle at the Windows desktop. NVIDIA is aware of the complication, though it appears that a fix won’t really be in order until an architectural shift is made down the road. With the ability to redesign the clock domains available to them, NVIDIA could design the pixel and GPU clock to be completely asynchronous, increasing one without affecting the other. It’s not a simple process though, especially in a processor this complex. We have seen Intel and AMD correctly and effectively separate clocks in recent years on newer CPU designs.

What happens to a modern AMD GPU like the R9 Fury with a similar test? To find out we connected our same GPU test bed to the ASUS MG279Q, a FreeSync enabled monitor capable of 144 Hz refresh rates, and swapped the GTX 980 Ti for an ASUS R9 Fury STRIX.

powerdrawamd1.png

powerdrawamd2.png

The AMD Fury does not demonstrate the same phenomenon that the GTX 980 Ti does when running at high refresh rates. The Fiji GPU runs at the same static 300MHz clock rate at 60Hz, 120Hz and 144Hz and the power draw on the system only inches up by 2 watts or so. I wasn't able to test 165Hz refresh rates on the AMD setup so it is possible that at that threshold the AMD graphics card would behave differently. It's also true that the NVIDIA Maxwell GPU is running at less than half the clock rate of AMD Fiji in this idle state, and that may account for difference in pixel clocks we are seeing. Still, the NVIDIA platform draws slightly more power at idle than the AMD platform, so advantage AMD here.

For today, know that if you choose to use a 144Hz or even a 165Hz refresh rate on your NVIDIA GeForce GPU you are going to be drawing a bit more power and will be less efficient than expected even just sitting in Windows. I would bet that most gamers willing to buy high end display hardware capable of those speeds won’t be overly concerned with 50-60 watts of additional power draw, but it’s an interesting data point for us to track going forward and to compare AMD and NVIDIA hardware in the future.

Author:
Subject: Displays
Manufacturer: ASUS

Specifications

It's hard to believe that it has only been 14 months since the release of the first ASUS ROG Swift, the PG278Q, back in August of 2014. It seems like lifetimes have passed, with drama circling around other G-Sync panels, the first release of FreeSync screens, the second geneation of FreeSync panels that greatly improve overdrive. Now, we sit in the middle of the second full wave of G-Sync screens. A lot can happen in this field if you blink.

The PG278Q was easily the best G-Sync monitor on the market for quite a long time. It offered performance, features and quality that very few other monitors could match, and it did it all while including support for NVIDIA's G-Sync variable refresh rate technology. If you are new to VRR tech, and want to learn about G-Sync you can check out our original editorial or an in-depth interview with NVIDIA's Tom Petersen. In short: being able to have a variable refresh rate on a panel match the frame rate of the game prevents Vsync quirks like screen tearing and judder.

icon.jpg

But a lot has changed since ASUS released the PG278Q including the release of other higher quality monitors from the likes of Acer, BenQ and others. ASUS showed off some new G-Sync ready displays at CES but that was way back in January of 2015 - more than 10 months ago! The PG279Q was the most interesting to us then and remains that way today. There are some impressive specifications on the table including a 27-in 2560x1440 screen built on IPS technology, to improve color reproduction and view angles, a 165Hz maximum refresh rate and the best build quality we have seen on a gaming monitor to date.

This time ASUS has a lot more competition to deal with but can the ROG Swift PG279Q real ignite ASUS as the best G-Sync monitor provider? What kind of experience do you get for a $799 monitor today?

Continue reading our review of the ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q 165Hz 2560x1440 27-in IPS G-Sync Monitor!!

Podcast #366 - MSI 990FXA-Gaming, Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-3400, R9 Nano Controversy and more!

Subject: General Tech | September 10, 2015 - 03:22 PM |
Tagged: podcast, msi, 990FXA-Gaming, usb 3.1, corsair, ddr4-3440, amd, r9 nano, Fiji, Fury, western digital, 6tb, Red Pro, Black, asus, ROG Swift, Grado, SR225e, video

PC Perspective Podcast #366 - 09/10/2015

Join us this week as we discuss the MSI 990FXA-Gaming, Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-3400, R9 Nano Controversy and more!

You can subscribe to us through iTunes and you can still access it directly through the RSS page HERE.

The URL for the podcast is: http://pcper.com/podcast - Share with your friends!

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Hosts: Ryan Shrout, Josh Walrath, Jeremy Hellstrom, and Allyn Malventano

Subscribe to the PC Perspective YouTube Channel for more videos, reviews and podcasts!!

IFA 2015: ASUS ROG Swift PG348Q: 34-inch 21:9 100Hz IPS G-SYNC Monitor

Subject: Displays | September 3, 2015 - 08:58 AM |
Tagged: ROG Swift, PG348Q, monitor, ips, IFA 2015, gaming monitor, g-sync, asus, 3440x1440, 21:9, 100Hz

The latest ROG Swift monitor from ASUS is the PG348Q, which features a curved 34-inch IPS 21:9 display.

Swift PG348Q front+back_shadow.jpg

The ROG Swift PG348Q offers 3440x1440 resolution from its 100 Hz IPS panel, and includes NVIDIA G-SYNC technology. The new ROG Swift is said to have a "frameless curved design", but as we saw with the recently reviewed ASUS PB258Q monitor this might not be quite as frameless after all, but we shall see.

The ROG Swift PG348Q features full tilt, swivel, and height adjustments, and offers a couple of ASUS-specific features including GamePlus, which "gives users four different crosshair options, an in-game timer and an FPS counter for an added advantage in first-person-shooter and real-time-strategy games", and GameVisual, which "provides six preset display modes for optimized gaming visuals".

ROG PG348Q with G20 special edition.jpg

Pricing and availability of this latest ROG Swift has yet to be announced.

Source: ASUS

CES 2015: ASUS 27-inch ROG Swift PG27AQ 4K Gaming Monitor with NVIDIA G-SYNC and IPS

Subject: Displays | January 7, 2015 - 03:17 AM |
Tagged: ROG Swift, ROG, monitor, ips, in plane switching, gaming monitor, g-sync, ces 2015, CES, asus

UPDATE: Hands on video with JJ from ASUS!

The new ASUS ROG Swift PG27AQ features a 3840 x 2160-pixel 4K (UHD) resolution IPS panel for wide viewing angles and accurate color.

ROG_Swift_PG27AQ_01.jpg

The 27-inch LED-backlit display features NVIDIA G-SYNC technology to synchronizes its refresh rates to the computer’s graphics-processing unit (GPU), eliminating screen tearing and minimizing stutter and input lag to deliver the smoothest gaming experience possible. The Swift PG27AQ also includes a five-way navigation joystick to navigate the on-screen display (why not, it’s a gaming monitor after all). The monitor stand features full tilt, swivel, pivot and height adjustment, as well as a “smart cable-management system”.

ROG_Swift_PG27AQ_02.jpg

The panel has a 1000:1 contrast ratio (without dynamic numbers in the millions this might look unimpressive, but it is typical for the native contrast on IPS) and 300 cd/m² brightness. The design also features a “super narrow” bezel which looks cool, but also makes multi-monitor setups more seamless (naturally you’ll want to buy at least two, right?).

No word on availability or pricing just yet.

Coverage of CES 2015 is brought to you by Logitech!

PC Perspective's CES 2015 coverage is sponsored by Logitech.

Follow all of our coverage of the show at http://pcper.com/ces!

Source: ASUS

CES 2015 Podcast Day 3 - FreeSync Impressions, Broadwell NUCs, Intel Compute Stick, Storage News and more!

Subject: General Tech | January 7, 2015 - 03:15 AM |
Tagged: video, CES, ROG Swift, podcast, pg27aq, patriot, nvidia, nuc, Intel, g-sync, freesync, dp1.2a +, Corsais, Computer Stick, Broadwell, asus, amd, adata, adaptive sync

CES 2015 Podcast Day 3 - 01/06/15

CES is almost over for us, but we have plenty to talk about. Join us for our FreeSync Impressions, Broadwell NUCs, Intel Compute Stick, Storage News and more!

You can subscribe to us through iTunes and you can still access it directly through the RSS page HERE.

The URL for the podcast is: http://pcper.com/podcast - Share with your friends!

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Hosts: Ryan Shrout, Josh Walrath, Allyn Malventano and Ken Addison

Program length: 57:31

Be sure to subscribe to the PC Perspective YouTube channel!!

 

Coverage of CES 2015 is brought to you by Logitech!

PC Perspective's CES 2015 coverage is sponsored by Logitech.

Follow all of our coverage of the show at http://pcper.com/ces!

CES 2015 Podcast Day 2 - ASUS, Gigabyte, Freesync Monitors, Storage News and more!

Subject: General Tech | January 6, 2015 - 04:01 AM |
Tagged: zenphone 2, x99 soc champion, video, transformer book chi, ROG Swift, podcast, pg27aq, gigabyte, g-sync, freesync, brix s, brix, asus, amd

CES 2015 Podcast Day 2 - 01/05/15

It's time for podcast fun at CES!  Join us as we talk about the second day of the show including a lot of announcements from ASUS, Gigabyte, Freesync Monitors, Storage News and more!

You can subscribe to us through iTunes and you can still access it directly through the RSS page HERE.

The URL for the podcast is: http://pcper.com/podcast - Share with your friends!

  • iTunes - Subscribe to the podcast directly through the iTunes Store
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Hosts: Ryan Shrout, Josh Walrath, Allyn Malventano and Ken Addison

Program length: 47:57

Be sure to subscribe to the PC Perspective YouTube channel!!

 

Coverage of CES 2015 is brought to you by Logitech!

PC Perspective's CES 2015 coverage is sponsored by Logitech.

Follow all of our coverage of the show at http://pcper.com/ces!